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	<title>Comments on: NASA budget concerns (part 2)</title>
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	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Harold LaValley</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-361</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harold LaValley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does anyone know what the Mars robotic exploration: $691 million, a 16 percent increase is for. What mission does the detail apply to? Is this the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and if so why an increase is needed for an orbiter that should be almost ready for flight later this year.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know what the Mars robotic exploration: $691 million, a 16 percent increase is for. What mission does the detail apply to? Is this the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter and if so why an increase is needed for an orbiter that should be almost ready for flight later this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark R, Whittington</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark R, Whittington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2004 21:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dwayne - I don&#039;t think you&#039;re listening. If the Space Daily article is accurate, Boehlert has already conceeded that NASA will get most of the increase it&#039;s asked for, that is to say all that&#039;s related to shuttle/ISS (730 million) and part of the remaining 136 million related to Moon, Mars, and Beyond. Boehlert, I think, realizes that if NASA doesn&#039;t get the increase, the shuttle doesn&#039;t fly next year, not because of any technology snafu or management screwup, but because Congress would be irresponsibly stingy. The real fight, therefore, is over a an absurdly small amount of money. The &quot;fairness&quot; excuse is no longer, as they say inside the Beltway, operative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dwayne &#8211; I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re listening. If the Space Daily article is accurate, Boehlert has already conceeded that NASA will get most of the increase it&#8217;s asked for, that is to say all that&#8217;s related to shuttle/ISS (730 million) and part of the remaining 136 million related to Moon, Mars, and Beyond. Boehlert, I think, realizes that if NASA doesn&#8217;t get the increase, the shuttle doesn&#8217;t fly next year, not because of any technology snafu or management screwup, but because Congress would be irresponsibly stingy. The real fight, therefore, is over a an absurdly small amount of money. The &#8220;fairness&#8221; excuse is no longer, as they say inside the Beltway, operative.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold LaValley</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harold LaValley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that the part that bothers me the most is that we have the ISS with now 2 bum gyro&#039;s with no way to deliver new ones. If needed due to another failure or if both remaining units should fail what would we do then. Nasa needs to think outside of the box and prep a mission to deliver new gyro&#039;s not with a shuttle but by another unmanned rocket. The delta 4 comes to mind for the lift capability and I think could be altered rather quickly to make this possible. 

Nasa must begin to try at least to improve its image to the other ISS partners or we will lose a very precious chance to begin exploring space as a united earth nations that have interest instead of by individualized mostly militarily concious efforts or of one upmanship.

I for one do not want to see a chinese or anyother nations flag planted on the moon before we can plant another one ourselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the part that bothers me the most is that we have the ISS with now 2 bum gyro&#8217;s with no way to deliver new ones. If needed due to another failure or if both remaining units should fail what would we do then. Nasa needs to think outside of the box and prep a mission to deliver new gyro&#8217;s not with a shuttle but by another unmanned rocket. The delta 4 comes to mind for the lift capability and I think could be altered rather quickly to make this possible. </p>
<p>Nasa must begin to try at least to improve its image to the other ISS partners or we will lose a very precious chance to begin exploring space as a united earth nations that have interest instead of by individualized mostly militarily concious efforts or of one upmanship.</p>
<p>I for one do not want to see a chinese or anyother nations flag planted on the moon before we can plant another one ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold LaValley</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harold LaValley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well if no money is injected into there budget for new programs then the out come if run like manufacturing is to lower head counts and indirect cost as a way to free up capital. This using is done for short term but hurts long term for you usually loss those people that are let go for they never come back. Oh and then they hire though temp agencies at reduced wages for staffing needs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if no money is injected into there budget for new programs then the out come if run like manufacturing is to lower head counts and indirect cost as a way to free up capital. This using is done for short term but hurts long term for you usually loss those people that are let go for they never come back. Oh and then they hire though temp agencies at reduced wages for staffing needs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dwayne A. Day</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dwayne A. Day]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2004 16:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think that &quot;pork barrel politics&quot; is really the issue here.  It is a question of both priorities and perceptions.  As Boehlert asked &quot;In such a budget, should NASA receive almost a 6 percent increase?  Is it the highest domestic spending priority?  I don&#039;t think so, and I doubt my colleagues will either.&quot;

I doubt that anybody reading this would argue that NASA _is_ the highest domestic spending priority.

Now yes, whether NASA is the &quot;highest domestic spending priority&quot; and whether it gets an increase (of any size) are separate issues.  But that&#039;s where the perception thing enters the picture--giving NASA an increase and no other budget an increase (other than Defense) strongly implies that NASA is special and should not face the same budget constraints that all the other agencies do.  It is really difficult to argue against that perception.

I&#039;m not saying I _like_ this situation.  But we have to face the reality of the situation rather than deny it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that &#8220;pork barrel politics&#8221; is really the issue here.  It is a question of both priorities and perceptions.  As Boehlert asked &#8220;In such a budget, should NASA receive almost a 6 percent increase?  Is it the highest domestic spending priority?  I don&#8217;t think so, and I doubt my colleagues will either.&#8221;</p>
<p>I doubt that anybody reading this would argue that NASA _is_ the highest domestic spending priority.</p>
<p>Now yes, whether NASA is the &#8220;highest domestic spending priority&#8221; and whether it gets an increase (of any size) are separate issues.  But that&#8217;s where the perception thing enters the picture&#8211;giving NASA an increase and no other budget an increase (other than Defense) strongly implies that NASA is special and should not face the same budget constraints that all the other agencies do.  It is really difficult to argue against that perception.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying I _like_ this situation.  But we have to face the reality of the situation rather than deny it.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Horsley</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Horsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I cant help but noticing just about every point made above is accurate; thus showing the beauty (or ugliness) of politics.  Its unfair that they use the fairness pretext for covering their porkbarrel politics.  But Congress is actually laboring under the burden of a war that spends the entire NASA yearly budget in just 4 months (for Iraq alone).  This makes any spending choices they make comparatively fair (or at least fiscally responsible-which is politically the same thing). 

To go back to the beginning of the comments, I dont think that the abandonment of Hubble is the cause of this, but it is a symptom of the lack of a spectacular justification for making NASA standout from the rest of the budget.  If NASA were willing to take risks, perhaps the Congress would be more willing to take risks on them.  I know this is a simplistic analysis, but if Hubble is something Congress really wants (which I&#039;m not sure has been determined), it wouldnt be a bad thing to put it on the negotiating table as a part of the budget increase.   

This would create some tough trade-offs within a comparatively small budget increase, but if the public and Congress want Hubble, this would be a good way to slip in some extra funds for NASA without raising too much fuss. It could even be a way to spread the political credit for space exploration beyond the &quot;Bush plan&quot; (which goes to the crux of the issue, would this be perceived to cause political credit, or blame).  At least it would take blame away from NASA if it is determined that Congress wants the flat budget more than Hubble.  The risk is if this were played badly and/or Congress really doesnt care about Hubble, they could just say no thank you to the whole increase.  Given the way things look now, that might not be losing anything.  Something to consider.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cant help but noticing just about every point made above is accurate; thus showing the beauty (or ugliness) of politics.  Its unfair that they use the fairness pretext for covering their porkbarrel politics.  But Congress is actually laboring under the burden of a war that spends the entire NASA yearly budget in just 4 months (for Iraq alone).  This makes any spending choices they make comparatively fair (or at least fiscally responsible-which is politically the same thing). </p>
<p>To go back to the beginning of the comments, I dont think that the abandonment of Hubble is the cause of this, but it is a symptom of the lack of a spectacular justification for making NASA standout from the rest of the budget.  If NASA were willing to take risks, perhaps the Congress would be more willing to take risks on them.  I know this is a simplistic analysis, but if Hubble is something Congress really wants (which I&#8217;m not sure has been determined), it wouldnt be a bad thing to put it on the negotiating table as a part of the budget increase.   </p>
<p>This would create some tough trade-offs within a comparatively small budget increase, but if the public and Congress want Hubble, this would be a good way to slip in some extra funds for NASA without raising too much fuss. It could even be a way to spread the political credit for space exploration beyond the &#8220;Bush plan&#8221; (which goes to the crux of the issue, would this be perceived to cause political credit, or blame).  At least it would take blame away from NASA if it is determined that Congress wants the flat budget more than Hubble.  The risk is if this were played badly and/or Congress really doesnt care about Hubble, they could just say no thank you to the whole increase.  Given the way things look now, that might not be losing anything.  Something to consider.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold LaValley</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harold LaValley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those that want to know the status report on the shuttles return to flight preperations.
http://www1.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/apr/HQ_s0408_shuttle.html
It is to bad that the Endeavour shuttle is so far behind the others due to the full or Major Modifications process.
Has anyone come out an said what the recertification to use the shuttle longer than 2010 would entail besides all the ongoing return to flight stuff, repairs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those that want to know the status report on the shuttles return to flight preperations.<br />
<a href="http://www1.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/apr/HQ_s0408_shuttle.html" rel="nofollow">http://www1.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/apr/HQ_s0408_shuttle.html</a><br />
It is to bad that the Endeavour shuttle is so far behind the others due to the full or Major Modifications process.<br />
Has anyone come out an said what the recertification to use the shuttle longer than 2010 would entail besides all the ongoing return to flight stuff, repairs.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark R. Whittington</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark R. Whittington]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bill - SCSC was not cancelled to fund the space station. It was cancelled because enough Congressmen wanted to make a statement of a big science project that, alas, was out of control.

Another note on the &quot;fairness excuse.&quot; Today&#039;s story on Space Daily indicates that Boehlert is favorably disposed to funded the shuttle/ISS portion of the proposed increase, plus a &quot;part&quot; of the Moon, Mars and Beyond portion. Now, the shuttle/ISS portion is about 730 million dollars. Right there the &quot;fairness excuse&quot; is blown away because NASA has must of the increase. Now, let us suppose that Boehlert agrees to a third of the remaining 136 million allocated to Moon, Mars, and Beyond. That leaves a 91 million dollar shortfall, a rounding error it seems to me in the overall VA, HUD, IA appropriatrions bill. If the President and Congress can&#039;t find that little amount of money to bring MM&amp;B up to full funding, then something is seriously wrong.

The cynical part of me would suggest starting with the 300+ million Congress always saddles NASA with eremarks (i.e., useless pork.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill &#8211; SCSC was not cancelled to fund the space station. It was cancelled because enough Congressmen wanted to make a statement of a big science project that, alas, was out of control.</p>
<p>Another note on the &#8220;fairness excuse.&#8221; Today&#8217;s story on Space Daily indicates that Boehlert is favorably disposed to funded the shuttle/ISS portion of the proposed increase, plus a &#8220;part&#8221; of the Moon, Mars and Beyond portion. Now, the shuttle/ISS portion is about 730 million dollars. Right there the &#8220;fairness excuse&#8221; is blown away because NASA has must of the increase. Now, let us suppose that Boehlert agrees to a third of the remaining 136 million allocated to Moon, Mars, and Beyond. That leaves a 91 million dollar shortfall, a rounding error it seems to me in the overall VA, HUD, IA appropriatrions bill. If the President and Congress can&#8217;t find that little amount of money to bring MM&#038;B up to full funding, then something is seriously wrong.</p>
<p>The cynical part of me would suggest starting with the 300+ million Congress always saddles NASA with eremarks (i.e., useless pork.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bill White</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill White]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[William Langewiesche, in the Atlantic Monthly, has written on the Columbia disaster and whether the shuttle should return to flight at all. In one short essay he writes that the essential question is whether humanity should undertake to become a two planet species. IMHO that is the real question.

Issues such as &quot;ISS completion&quot; or &quot;shuttle derived HLLV versus Delta IV EELV&quot; or even &quot;Bush v Kerry&quot; almost seem to evaporate into insignificance when compared to the question &quot;should humans beings become a genuine two planet species, bearing and raising children at multiple celestial locations?&quot;

This essay suggests that grounding the orbiter may help focus attention on this bigger question.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/langewiesche.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/langewiesche.htm&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William Langewiesche, in the Atlantic Monthly, has written on the Columbia disaster and whether the shuttle should return to flight at all. In one short essay he writes that the essential question is whether humanity should undertake to become a two planet species. IMHO that is the real question.</p>
<p>Issues such as &#8220;ISS completion&#8221; or &#8220;shuttle derived HLLV versus Delta IV EELV&#8221; or even &#8220;Bush v Kerry&#8221; almost seem to evaporate into insignificance when compared to the question &#8220;should humans beings become a genuine two planet species, bearing and raising children at multiple celestial locations?&#8221;</p>
<p>This essay suggests that grounding the orbiter may help focus attention on this bigger question.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/langewiesche.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/langewiesche.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dwayne A. Day</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/04/22/nasa-budget-concerns-part-2/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dwayne A. Day]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=159#comment-352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the concept of &quot;fairness&quot; when it comes to budget increases for agencies is a useless one.  There&#039;s plenty of unfairness to go around, depending upon your perspective.  Is it &quot;fair&quot; for people to die of diseases when money is spent exploring Mars rather than curing those diseases?

Ultimately, it comes down to a _very_ simple political equation:  we are at war, that war is eating up a lot of money, we are in a big deficit, and NASA is just about the only budget that gets an increase.  So it is very easy to see how NASA is not going to get that increase.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the concept of &#8220;fairness&#8221; when it comes to budget increases for agencies is a useless one.  There&#8217;s plenty of unfairness to go around, depending upon your perspective.  Is it &#8220;fair&#8221; for people to die of diseases when money is spent exploring Mars rather than curing those diseases?</p>
<p>Ultimately, it comes down to a _very_ simple political equation:  we are at war, that war is eating up a lot of money, we are in a big deficit, and NASA is just about the only budget that gets an increase.  So it is very easy to see how NASA is not going to get that increase.</p>
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