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	<title>Comments on: Manned vs. unmanned (again)</title>
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	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: John Malkin</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Malkin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2004 17:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=281#comment-1183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I’m not sure the uses of he3 but just plain helium has lots of uses today.  The cost of helium fell from $2500/ft3 in 1915 to 1.5 cents /ft3 in 1940. The U.S. Bureau of Mines has set the price of Grade A helium at $37.50/1000 ft3 in 1986.  Today it runs about $150/1000 ft3 depending on grade and discount.  There is he3 and he4 on earth but it doesn’t occur naturally, he4 has interesting properties.  I don’t expect any of the big gas companies getting there supply for earth from space.  However, if we needed to power or build spacecraft for interplanetary flight than getting it from space would be economical for the long term with frequent travel.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not sure the uses of he3 but just plain helium has lots of uses today.  The cost of helium fell from $2500/ft3 in 1915 to 1.5 cents /ft3 in 1940. The U.S. Bureau of Mines has set the price of Grade A helium at $37.50/1000 ft3 in 1986.  Today it runs about $150/1000 ft3 depending on grade and discount.  There is he3 and he4 on earth but it doesn’t occur naturally, he4 has interesting properties.  I don’t expect any of the big gas companies getting there supply for earth from space.  However, if we needed to power or build spacecraft for interplanetary flight than getting it from space would be economical for the long term with frequent travel.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Zinthefer</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Zinthefer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I don&#039;t know of any raw resource which would be cheaper to import from space but exporting to space is very expensive.&lt;/i&gt;

Just being argumentative, but He3 is cheaper to get from space just for the fact that it doesn&#039;t exist on Earth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don&#8217;t know of any raw resource which would be cheaper to import from space but exporting to space is very expensive.</i></p>
<p>Just being argumentative, but He3 is cheaper to get from space just for the fact that it doesn&#8217;t exist on Earth.</p>
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		<title>By: John Malkin</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1181</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Malkin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know of any raw resource which would be cheaper to import from space but exporting to space is very expensive.

It&#039;s also cheaper to send people for long terms rather than short terms, which would mean colonization. Congress and the president seem to fear the word colonization.  I would pay to be a space pilgrim in a yellow space submarine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know of any raw resource which would be cheaper to import from space but exporting to space is very expensive.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also cheaper to send people for long terms rather than short terms, which would mean colonization. Congress and the president seem to fear the word colonization.  I would pay to be a space pilgrim in a yellow space submarine.</p>
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		<title>By: John Malkin</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1180</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Malkin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=281#comment-1180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here are some questions for the Congress:
Does the United States see a benefit in expanding our human boarders into space for scientific, commercial or strategic applications?

What are the priorities and the annual budget?

Do we wait for private sector to develop a spacecraft to access ISS post shuttle? (How many years would that take? And who pays for it?)

How long do we keep the Shuttle going before congress finances an alternative?

Do we phase out all human travel to space after commitments to ISS have been satisfied?

If robots are better than why send a shuttle to fix Hubble?

Does the U.S. lead in space expansion or follow?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some questions for the Congress:<br />
Does the United States see a benefit in expanding our human boarders into space for scientific, commercial or strategic applications?</p>
<p>What are the priorities and the annual budget?</p>
<p>Do we wait for private sector to develop a spacecraft to access ISS post shuttle? (How many years would that take? And who pays for it?)</p>
<p>How long do we keep the Shuttle going before congress finances an alternative?</p>
<p>Do we phase out all human travel to space after commitments to ISS have been satisfied?</p>
<p>If robots are better than why send a shuttle to fix Hubble?</p>
<p>Does the U.S. lead in space expansion or follow?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill White</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1179</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill White]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=281#comment-1179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A comment on resource utilization:

&lt;i&gt;What we are capable of doing in the relatively near term is exploit resources on the Moon and on near Earth Asteroids. This would not require colonization, but merely “tours of duty” in space.&lt;/i&gt;

The percentage contribution of raw materials towards total economic production has been rapidly falling for decades if not centuries. 

Can we really expect to mine aluminum or even platinum for a lower cost than the cost of more aggresive re-cycling?

As Sam Dinkin has said, we cannot beat the export cost of video-tape.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A comment on resource utilization:</p>
<p><i>What we are capable of doing in the relatively near term is exploit resources on the Moon and on near Earth Asteroids. This would not require colonization, but merely “tours of duty” in space.</i></p>
<p>The percentage contribution of raw materials towards total economic production has been rapidly falling for decades if not centuries. </p>
<p>Can we really expect to mine aluminum or even platinum for a lower cost than the cost of more aggresive re-cycling?</p>
<p>As Sam Dinkin has said, we cannot beat the export cost of video-tape.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert G. Oler</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1178</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert G. Oler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Stanley Schmidt, Editorial, Analog Science Fiction and Fact, September 2004

Posted by at August 18, 2004 06:02 AM]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stanley Schmidt, Editorial, Analog Science Fiction and Fact, September 2004</p>
<p>Posted by at August 18, 2004 06:02 AM</p>
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		<title>By: Dogsbd</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1177</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dogsbd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=281#comment-1177</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Again, I believe that the talk of “colonization” is premature.

What we are capable of doing in the relatively near term is exploit resources on the Moon and on near Earth Asteroids. This would not require colonization, but merely “tours of duty” in space. That is the comparison to the oilrig / SSN that applies, not leaving the planet to live the remainder of ones life in space or on the Moon / Mars.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, I believe that the talk of “colonization” is premature.</p>
<p>What we are capable of doing in the relatively near term is exploit resources on the Moon and on near Earth Asteroids. This would not require colonization, but merely “tours of duty” in space. That is the comparison to the oilrig / SSN that applies, not leaving the planet to live the remainder of ones life in space or on the Moon / Mars.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Zinthefer</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1176</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Zinthefer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure if I agree with the current metaphor of &quot;oil rig&quot; and &quot;nuclear sub&quot; for living on Mars or the Moon.  The Moon is pretty hostile but living on Mars wouldn&#039;t be much different from living in Antarctica.  Last time I checked, there are thousands of people living down there doing research and whatnot.  Sure, you have to wear a space suit but you can travel around.  Not true so much on a sub or oil rig.  Also, on Mars, you have the possibility of building a large habitat in the native environment.  How big?  How many tools and workers do you have?

The point is, thousands of people already live in environments comparable to a space colony.  I doubt we&#039;ll ever have a shortage of people who would be willing to live like that on Mars or the Moon if given the chance.  Just because a Mars hab isn&#039;t a suburban ranch house, doesn’t mean no one will want to live there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if I agree with the current metaphor of &#8220;oil rig&#8221; and &#8220;nuclear sub&#8221; for living on Mars or the Moon.  The Moon is pretty hostile but living on Mars wouldn&#8217;t be much different from living in Antarctica.  Last time I checked, there are thousands of people living down there doing research and whatnot.  Sure, you have to wear a space suit but you can travel around.  Not true so much on a sub or oil rig.  Also, on Mars, you have the possibility of building a large habitat in the native environment.  How big?  How many tools and workers do you have?</p>
<p>The point is, thousands of people already live in environments comparable to a space colony.  I doubt we&#8217;ll ever have a shortage of people who would be willing to live like that on Mars or the Moon if given the chance.  Just because a Mars hab isn&#8217;t a suburban ranch house, doesn’t mean no one will want to live there.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill White</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1175</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill White]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[This is from the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200401/langewiesche&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Atlantic Monthly&lt;/a&gt; and was written January 1, 2004:

&lt;i&gt;In the aftermath of the breakup of the space shuttle Columbia an important debate on the purpose and future of the U.S. human-space-flight program is under way, though perhaps not as forthrightly as it should be. The issue at stake is not space exploration in itself but the necessity of launching manned (versus robotic) vehicles. Because articles of faith are involved, the arguments tend to be manipulative and hyperbolic. If the debate is to be productive, that needs to change.&lt;/i&gt;

And here is the crux of William Langewiesche&#039;s piece:
 
&lt;i&gt;One thing for sure is that the American public is more sophisticated than the space community has given it credit for. In the event of a grounding the public might well be presented with a question now asked only of insiders—not whether there are immediate benefits to be gleaned from a human presence in space but, more fundamentally, whether we are to be a two-planet species?&lt;/i&gt;

The author is an esteemed mainstream journalist who has interests far beyond the space community.

So, is it worth it? Is it worth the money and risk for a tiny group of humans to live their entire lives (and bear children) confined to an oil rig or nuclear submarine?

Frankly, if we answer &quot;No&quot; - - then why bother with manned spaceflight at all? 

And, how has George Bush or the Aldridge Commission helped us address &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; question?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is from the <a HREF="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200401/langewiesche" rel="nofollow">Atlantic Monthly</a> and was written January 1, 2004:</p>
<p><i>In the aftermath of the breakup of the space shuttle Columbia an important debate on the purpose and future of the U.S. human-space-flight program is under way, though perhaps not as forthrightly as it should be. The issue at stake is not space exploration in itself but the necessity of launching manned (versus robotic) vehicles. Because articles of faith are involved, the arguments tend to be manipulative and hyperbolic. If the debate is to be productive, that needs to change.</i></p>
<p>And here is the crux of William Langewiesche&#8217;s piece:</p>
<p><i>One thing for sure is that the American public is more sophisticated than the space community has given it credit for. In the event of a grounding the public might well be presented with a question now asked only of insiders—not whether there are immediate benefits to be gleaned from a human presence in space but, more fundamentally, whether we are to be a two-planet species?</i></p>
<p>The author is an esteemed mainstream journalist who has interests far beyond the space community.</p>
<p>So, is it worth it? Is it worth the money and risk for a tiny group of humans to live their entire lives (and bear children) confined to an oil rig or nuclear submarine?</p>
<p>Frankly, if we answer &#8220;No&#8221; &#8211; &#8211; then why bother with manned spaceflight at all? </p>
<p>And, how has George Bush or the Aldridge Commission helped us address <b><i>this</i></b> question?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/08/17/manned-vs-unmanned-again/#comment-1174</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&gt; &quot;I use to think that space was the new west but have gone away from that view. It might be eventually but our technology/cost numbers have to change dramatically before that happens.&quot;

&quot;Occasionally I hear someone say we should wait until the technology is ready... Better technologies are developed because they&#039;re needed to do a job; rarely, if ever, does an expensive and elaborate technology get fully developed purely for its own sake, with the hope that someday somebody will decide it&#039;s ready to use for something. New technologies typically develop by steps, perceived needs leading to new developments, and those in turn suggesting new steps--but we&#039;re talking about steps, not leaps across chasms. There&#039;s no reason to expect human exploration and colonization of space and other worlds to be any different. First we&#039;ll send a few individuals, at considerable cost and with occasional deadly accidents along the way. But we&#039;ll learn from the experience...&quot;
Stanley Schmidt, Editorial, Analog Science Fiction and Fact, September 2004]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>> &#8220;I use to think that space was the new west but have gone away from that view. It might be eventually but our technology/cost numbers have to change dramatically before that happens.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Occasionally I hear someone say we should wait until the technology is ready&#8230; Better technologies are developed because they&#8217;re needed to do a job; rarely, if ever, does an expensive and elaborate technology get fully developed purely for its own sake, with the hope that someday somebody will decide it&#8217;s ready to use for something. New technologies typically develop by steps, perceived needs leading to new developments, and those in turn suggesting new steps&#8211;but we&#8217;re talking about steps, not leaps across chasms. There&#8217;s no reason to expect human exploration and colonization of space and other worlds to be any different. First we&#8217;ll send a few individuals, at considerable cost and with occasional deadly accidents along the way. But we&#8217;ll learn from the experience&#8230;&#8221;<br />
Stanley Schmidt, Editorial, Analog Science Fiction and Fact, September 2004</p>
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