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	<title>Comments on: Comparing conservative commentary</title>
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	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Toro</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2154</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Toro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Dec 2004 01:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think its Sagan vs. O&#039;Neil, etc. I think it is Kantian vs utilitarianism just like &quot;To kill a Mockingbird&quot;.  There is at least finally agreement that it is simply a matter of establishing trash day.    
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think its Sagan vs. O&#8217;Neil, etc. I think it is Kantian vs utilitarianism just like &#8220;To kill a Mockingbird&#8221;.  There is at least finally agreement that it is simply a matter of establishing trash day.    </p>
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		<title>By: Robert G. Oler</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2153</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert G. Oler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2004 03:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Posted by John Malkin at December 3, 2004 12:04 PM]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Posted by John Malkin at December 3, 2004 12:04 PM</p>
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		<title>By: John Malkin</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Malkin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[The vision is the destination not the path. O&#039;Neil combines vision with practical development. SSI continues his concepts and vision.  When he was alive, space exploration was at its worse. Under the light of today and the discoveries on Mars, I&#039;m sure he would want to focus on the planets.  Who started smaller than O’Neil?  I think he would say we need a cheap and reliable way to get off the planet before we do anything else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The vision is the destination not the path. O&#8217;Neil combines vision with practical development. SSI continues his concepts and vision.  When he was alive, space exploration was at its worse. Under the light of today and the discoveries on Mars, I&#8217;m sure he would want to focus on the planets.  Who started smaller than O’Neil?  I think he would say we need a cheap and reliable way to get off the planet before we do anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2151</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[John,

Just to clarify, I am not opposed to the O&#039;Neil vision -- though, personally, I think I will stick to planets rather than glorified suburbs in the sky.  I was only arguing that to get to O&#039;Neil, it&#039;s best to start as small as possible.

Dale,

My answer to your question is here,

http://www.speakeasy.org/~donaldfr/sfmodel.pdf

Arguing by historical analysis, it takes a market to drive commercial space development, and, at least initially, that market has to be put in place by the government.  The upshot is, no private organization is going to build the transportation to get to a lunar base until the lunar base is there.  However, once that transportation is commercialized, it allows the existing lunar base to grow into a town and then a city.

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Just to clarify, I am not opposed to the O&#8217;Neil vision &#8212; though, personally, I think I will stick to planets rather than glorified suburbs in the sky.  I was only arguing that to get to O&#8217;Neil, it&#8217;s best to start as small as possible.</p>
<p>Dale,</p>
<p>My answer to your question is here,</p>
<p><a href="http://www.speakeasy.org/~donaldfr/sfmodel.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.speakeasy.org/~donaldfr/sfmodel.pdf</a></p>
<p>Arguing by historical analysis, it takes a market to drive commercial space development, and, at least initially, that market has to be put in place by the government.  The upshot is, no private organization is going to build the transportation to get to a lunar base until the lunar base is there.  However, once that transportation is commercialized, it allows the existing lunar base to grow into a town and then a city.</p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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		<title>By: John Malkin</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2150</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Malkin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=374#comment-2150</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NASA didn’t commit the US to the Space Shuttle or Space Station; it was the presidents of the time.  There was no clear capability outlined in these endeavors, there ‘Purpose’ was evolutionary.  This is bad practice in R&amp;D.  the best practice for R&amp;D is to have a clear definition for the use and capability of the systems.

Rutan is a long way from producing spacecraft with capabilities of Boeing, Lockheed, ESA or even China.  What Rutan did was great but he doesn’t have the same infrastructure or R&amp;D budget as the large aerospace companies.  These companies have spent billions of there own money to develop both reusable and expendable vehicles.  Their investments are based on the customer who will buy their products.  Rutan has one buyer for 5 suborbital spaceships for a product that is currently in development.

America cannot wait 15 or 20 years for a replacement for the Shuttle so it will look to a combination of private companies, mostly large aerospace to build and service whatever space systems are required.  The U.S. cannot be stuck on the ground, VSE or not.

O’Neilians don’t require a large infrastructure and as matter a fact Gerard O’Neil develop plans using robots to mine and build the first habitats on the moon.  His plan was very affordable and is incorporated in many of the plans today.  He developed the first rail gun for use on the moon to send raw materials into space.  Gerard O’Neil combine vision and practical means. He is truly missed today.
http://www.ssi.org/obit.html (This is a good summary of O’Neil by Freeman Dyson)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NASA didn’t commit the US to the Space Shuttle or Space Station; it was the presidents of the time.  There was no clear capability outlined in these endeavors, there ‘Purpose’ was evolutionary.  This is bad practice in R&#038;D.  the best practice for R&#038;D is to have a clear definition for the use and capability of the systems.</p>
<p>Rutan is a long way from producing spacecraft with capabilities of Boeing, Lockheed, ESA or even China.  What Rutan did was great but he doesn’t have the same infrastructure or R&#038;D budget as the large aerospace companies.  These companies have spent billions of there own money to develop both reusable and expendable vehicles.  Their investments are based on the customer who will buy their products.  Rutan has one buyer for 5 suborbital spaceships for a product that is currently in development.</p>
<p>America cannot wait 15 or 20 years for a replacement for the Shuttle so it will look to a combination of private companies, mostly large aerospace to build and service whatever space systems are required.  The U.S. cannot be stuck on the ground, VSE or not.</p>
<p>O’Neilians don’t require a large infrastructure and as matter a fact Gerard O’Neil develop plans using robots to mine and build the first habitats on the moon.  His plan was very affordable and is incorporated in many of the plans today.  He developed the first rail gun for use on the moon to send raw materials into space.  Gerard O’Neil combine vision and practical means. He is truly missed today.<br />
<a href="http://www.ssi.org/obit.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ssi.org/obit.html</a> (This is a good summary of O’Neil by Freeman Dyson)</p>
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		<title>By: mrearl</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mrearl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[On Tuesday I attended NASA&#039;s Capability Public Road Map Workshop.  There I met many of the chair people and members of the various groups within NASA charged with planning the new Vision for Space Exploration.  In public speeches and private conversations they made it clear to me and others at the conference that private industry would be playing a much larger role in the VSE than in other NASA missions.  The emphasis seemed to be on either buying &quot;off the shelf&quot; or refining what was there as apposed to heavy NASA development.  What most struck me was that it was the mid-level engineers at the NASA centers that kept pushing for an &quot;in house&quot; solution.  I remember one from Marshal giving a talk on habitats and he had no knowledge what so ever of inflatables or Trans-Hab/Bigalow.  
Things are starting to change but it has to come from the top down]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Tuesday I attended NASA&#8217;s Capability Public Road Map Workshop.  There I met many of the chair people and members of the various groups within NASA charged with planning the new Vision for Space Exploration.  In public speeches and private conversations they made it clear to me and others at the conference that private industry would be playing a much larger role in the VSE than in other NASA missions.  The emphasis seemed to be on either buying &#8220;off the shelf&#8221; or refining what was there as apposed to heavy NASA development.  What most struck me was that it was the mid-level engineers at the NASA centers that kept pushing for an &#8220;in house&#8221; solution.  I remember one from Marshal giving a talk on habitats and he had no knowledge what so ever of inflatables or Trans-Hab/Bigalow.<br />
Things are starting to change but it has to come from the top down</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Littrell</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Littrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=374#comment-2148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dale,

Commercial spaceflight and NASA spaceflight will develop independently at first. Commercial spaceflight is doing mostly suborbital flights and NASA is doing orbital flights and beyond.

If commercial spaceflight develops an orbital vehicle, then there could be some commercial deals: NASA could purchase orbital flights, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dale,</p>
<p>Commercial spaceflight and NASA spaceflight will develop independently at first. Commercial spaceflight is doing mostly suborbital flights and NASA is doing orbital flights and beyond.</p>
<p>If commercial spaceflight develops an orbital vehicle, then there could be some commercial deals: NASA could purchase orbital flights, etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2147</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2004 05:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=374#comment-2147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was wondering if you gentlemen could give your opinions on an issue that has bothered me about the new space exploration policy.  I’m a typical taxpayer with a passing interest in space endeavors.  

The Apollo era produced great national pride and demonstrated to the old Soviet Union that the U.S. was a force to be reckoned with.  However, public support diminished as the cost of this exploration policy escalated.

NASA then began the space shuttle program, promising that these expenditures would eventually yield a monetary return on investment through the development of a commercial industry that would not require government funding.

Then NASA began the space station project.  This project was also touted as important to the commercialization of manned space flight, on orbit and beyond.

Now we are being told that we need to abandon the space shuttle and the space station, 2010 and 2017 respectively.  Instead we will redevelop the Apollo style spacecraft and restart the exploration of the Moon.

Does this mean that NASA and the federal government are going to ignore the development of a commercial industry, independent of government funding?  How will this new exploration policy develop an orbital, commercial market in the manned space flight industry?

Thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering if you gentlemen could give your opinions on an issue that has bothered me about the new space exploration policy.  I’m a typical taxpayer with a passing interest in space endeavors.  </p>
<p>The Apollo era produced great national pride and demonstrated to the old Soviet Union that the U.S. was a force to be reckoned with.  However, public support diminished as the cost of this exploration policy escalated.</p>
<p>NASA then began the space shuttle program, promising that these expenditures would eventually yield a monetary return on investment through the development of a commercial industry that would not require government funding.</p>
<p>Then NASA began the space station project.  This project was also touted as important to the commercialization of manned space flight, on orbit and beyond.</p>
<p>Now we are being told that we need to abandon the space shuttle and the space station, 2010 and 2017 respectively.  Instead we will redevelop the Apollo style spacecraft and restart the exploration of the Moon.</p>
<p>Does this mean that NASA and the federal government are going to ignore the development of a commercial industry, independent of government funding?  How will this new exploration policy develop an orbital, commercial market in the manned space flight industry?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Robert G. Oler</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2146</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert G. Oler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2004 04:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=374#comment-2146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Posted by John Malkin at December 2, 2004 02:56 PM 


During the speeches of SpaceShipOne’s first qualifying flight, it was said that prize money wasn’t as important as the goal and the belief it can be done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Posted by John Malkin at December 2, 2004 02:56 PM </p>
<p>During the speeches of SpaceShipOne’s first qualifying flight, it was said that prize money wasn’t as important as the goal and the belief it can be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Littrell</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2004/12/02/comparing-conservative-commentary/#comment-2145</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip Littrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2004 01:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[There are &quot;critics on the left, critics on the right&quot;, but the opposite is true too. There are supporters on the left and supporters on the right.

It&#039;s important to read the criticism to keep in touch with mainstream opinion. Although the critics keep repeating the same tired arguments ad nauseam.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are &#8220;critics on the left, critics on the right&#8221;, but the opposite is true too. There are supporters on the left and supporters on the right.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important to read the criticism to keep in touch with mainstream opinion. Although the critics keep repeating the same tired arguments ad nauseam.</p>
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