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	<title>Comments on: Senate takes aim at NASA airplanes</title>
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	<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes</link>
	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Foust</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Foust]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since the comments here long ago diverged from the topic of the post, I am closing comments.  I do not have the budget or other resources to support a general space/media/missile defense discussion blog.   There are plenty of alternative arenas better suited for such discussions. Your anticipated cooperation is greatly appreciated.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the comments here long ago diverged from the topic of the post, I am closing comments.  I do not have the budget or other resources to support a general space/media/missile defense discussion blog.   There are plenty of alternative arenas better suited for such discussions. Your anticipated cooperation is greatly appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3832</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not twenty years, but I worked for a company that had Fox on the televisions in the lunch room.  I saw _more_ than enough. . . .

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not twenty years, but I worked for a company that had Fox on the televisions in the lunch room.  I saw _more_ than enough. . . .</p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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		<title>By: Cecil Trotter</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3831</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cecil Trotter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Donald: &quot;I don&#039;t own a television.&quot;

But you can say without a doubt Fox News is biased?

Donald: &quot;That said, when I was in a situation when Fox was on display, I was appalled by the naked jingoism on display.&quot;

Ahhhh.. so the opinion is based on what, 30 minutes of viewing? A few hours maybe? What program did you see, a &quot;talk show&quot; type hosted by an admitted conservative? That would be Foxs&#039; conservative version of a Larry King. Liberals think a conservative talk show format is &quot;jingoism&quot; whereas a liberal version is journalism.

On the other hand I watched ABC, CBS and NBC news broadcasts for 20 years before I gave them up as hopeless.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donald: &#8220;I don&#8217;t own a television.&#8221;</p>
<p>But you can say without a doubt Fox News is biased?</p>
<p>Donald: &#8220;That said, when I was in a situation when Fox was on display, I was appalled by the naked jingoism on display.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ahhhh.. so the opinion is based on what, 30 minutes of viewing? A few hours maybe? What program did you see, a &#8220;talk show&#8221; type hosted by an admitted conservative? That would be Foxs&#8217; conservative version of a Larry King. Liberals think a conservative talk show format is &#8220;jingoism&#8221; whereas a liberal version is journalism.</p>
<p>On the other hand I watched ABC, CBS and NBC news broadcasts for 20 years before I gave them up as hopeless.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecil Trotter</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3830</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cecil Trotter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kuperberg: &quot;I&#039;m going to stick to the space policy question.&quot;

So why did you insert ABM into the discussion in the first place?

Never mind...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kuperberg: &#8220;I&#8217;m going to stick to the space policy question.&#8221;</p>
<p>So why did you insert ABM into the discussion in the first place?</p>
<p>Never mind&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3829</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3829</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Fox has as good a grasp on facts vs bias as does CBS/CNN. Of course you&#039;re not going to gore CBS/CNN&#039;s ox since they are toing YOUR line.&quot;

Actually, I don&#039;t like either one.  I don&#039;t own a television.  There is _always_ something better to do and / or a better source of information, especially in this Internet-enabled world.

That said, when I was in a situation when Fox was on display, I was appalled by the naked jingoism on display.  If that is &quot;unbiased&quot; news, then yes I want nothing to do with it.

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Fox has as good a grasp on facts vs bias as does CBS/CNN. Of course you&#8217;re not going to gore CBS/CNN&#8217;s ox since they are toing YOUR line.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, I don&#8217;t like either one.  I don&#8217;t own a television.  There is _always_ something better to do and / or a better source of information, especially in this Internet-enabled world.</p>
<p>That said, when I was in a situation when Fox was on display, I was appalled by the naked jingoism on display.  If that is &#8220;unbiased&#8221; news, then yes I want nothing to do with it.</p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Kuperberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Kuperberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 21:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cecil, I&#039;m going to stick to the space policy question.  Incessant moaning about media bias is the bane of the Internet.  (That and porn.  But as mindless dreck goes, porn is the best!)

Who told you that North Korea has no &quot;decoy capacity&quot;?  What military has ever had trouble making decoys?

And yeah, the government should never reward pathetic, inexcusable failure with guaranteed funding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cecil, I&#8217;m going to stick to the space policy question.  Incessant moaning about media bias is the bane of the Internet.  (That and porn.  But as mindless dreck goes, porn is the best!)</p>
<p>Who told you that North Korea has no &#8220;decoy capacity&#8221;?  What military has ever had trouble making decoys?</p>
<p>And yeah, the government should never reward pathetic, inexcusable failure with guaranteed funding.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecil Trotter</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3827</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cecil Trotter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3827</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Donald: &quot;You mean like, say, Fox Television?&quot;

Fox has as good a grasp on facts vs bias as does CBS/CNN. Of course you&#039;re not going to gore CBS/CNN&#039;s ox since they are toing YOUR line.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donald: &#8220;You mean like, say, Fox Television?&#8221;</p>
<p>Fox has as good a grasp on facts vs bias as does CBS/CNN. Of course you&#8217;re not going to gore CBS/CNN&#8217;s ox since they are toing YOUR line.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Paul Dietz</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3826</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Dietz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dfens: they know the mass of the object that hit the wing, since they know how big it was, hence its drag, and they know how fast it decelerated in the airstream.  The mass is consistent with the object being composed only of foam.  Certainly if any ice was present, there wasn&#039;t very much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dfens: they know the mass of the object that hit the wing, since they know how big it was, hence its drag, and they know how fast it decelerated in the airstream.  The mass is consistent with the object being composed only of foam.  Certainly if any ice was present, there wasn&#8217;t very much.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3825</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3825</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;My take is that the media should report the facts, ALL the facts and not just the ones that agree with their agenda.&quot;

You mean like, say, Fox Television?

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My take is that the media should report the facts, ALL the facts and not just the ones that agree with their agenda.&#8221;</p>
<p>You mean like, say, Fox Television?</p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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		<title>By: Cecil Trotter</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2005/07/26/senate-takes-aim-at-nasa-airplanes/#comment-3824</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cecil Trotter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=618#comment-3824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kuperberg: “No, the Naval system hasn&#039;t been shown to work well. For the ground-based ABM tests, they set the bar very low, but the system tripped over it anyway. For the Naval Aegis system, they also set the bar low (for example by not bothering with decoys) and the system only tripped 1 time out of 6.”

You’re skipping around a bit so let me sort this out; I’ll start with the ground based system. I think we’ve already agreed that it has not as yet worked as well as we would like.

Now you say, “the Naval system hasn&#039;t been shown to work well” and site that it has failed only one of six tests as proof of that assertion. By most accounts 83% success is pretty good for a test program, and when you consider that the failure was in 2003 and that the root cause of the failure was identified and corrected that one failure carries less weight that it would if it were unexplained or more recent.

As far as not using decoys, well I’m not sure what you expect. It is a developing program and decoy discrimination IS planned. For the time being this is a very good system, better than no system for sure, to deal with a low launch rate situation by a country like North Korea that doesn’t have any decoy capacity anyway.

Kuperberg: “Not that it really matters, because they are still funding both systems. As Taylor Dinerman explained it in the Space Review, missile defense is an unstoppable success — politically.”

A good thing too. I take it that your response to a failure in a program would be to just give up?

Kuperberg: “And what is your take on it? That the reputations of these colossal government programs might suffer at the hands of privately owned newspapers. Which one spends your tax money, NASA or the New York Times? Which one has a bigger budget?”

You must have a very low opinion of the power of the press. The NYT and any other national news media have the power to mold public opinion, and they know it. For many media outlets that has become their mission; not to report the news as it should be. My take is that the media should report the facts, ALL the facts and not just the ones that agree with their agenda.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kuperberg: “No, the Naval system hasn&#8217;t been shown to work well. For the ground-based ABM tests, they set the bar very low, but the system tripped over it anyway. For the Naval Aegis system, they also set the bar low (for example by not bothering with decoys) and the system only tripped 1 time out of 6.”</p>
<p>You’re skipping around a bit so let me sort this out; I’ll start with the ground based system. I think we’ve already agreed that it has not as yet worked as well as we would like.</p>
<p>Now you say, “the Naval system hasn&#8217;t been shown to work well” and site that it has failed only one of six tests as proof of that assertion. By most accounts 83% success is pretty good for a test program, and when you consider that the failure was in 2003 and that the root cause of the failure was identified and corrected that one failure carries less weight that it would if it were unexplained or more recent.</p>
<p>As far as not using decoys, well I’m not sure what you expect. It is a developing program and decoy discrimination IS planned. For the time being this is a very good system, better than no system for sure, to deal with a low launch rate situation by a country like North Korea that doesn’t have any decoy capacity anyway.</p>
<p>Kuperberg: “Not that it really matters, because they are still funding both systems. As Taylor Dinerman explained it in the Space Review, missile defense is an unstoppable success — politically.”</p>
<p>A good thing too. I take it that your response to a failure in a program would be to just give up?</p>
<p>Kuperberg: “And what is your take on it? That the reputations of these colossal government programs might suffer at the hands of privately owned newspapers. Which one spends your tax money, NASA or the New York Times? Which one has a bigger budget?”</p>
<p>You must have a very low opinion of the power of the press. The NYT and any other national news media have the power to mold public opinion, and they know it. For many media outlets that has become their mission; not to report the news as it should be. My take is that the media should report the facts, ALL the facts and not just the ones that agree with their agenda.</p>
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