Thus with China on board, whether our Childen look under the Christmas tree, or up into the night sky, they can repeat that Christmas refrain that keeps us all merry; MADE IN CHINA.

While the Space Station has cost way too much, I strongly disagree regarding its usefulness once up there. But, I see no reason to rehash all of that again. Suffice it to say, if we’re going to do anything out in the Solar Systems, operations and experience are far more important to us now than technology, much of which has been demonstrated. That is what the Space Station is giving us.

— Donald

Mr. Koren wrote:
“Pure delusion.”
“I seriously doubt they’d bite, when in all probability they could put up their own Salyut-class station more quickly and more cheaply than “cooperation” could get them on the ISS.”

You are missing a key point, which is that the Chinese have _already_ expressed an interest in flying to ISS. Now their preference would be to fly Shenzhou there, but a taikonaut flight on shuttle could be viewed as a prelude to that.

The attractiveness of ISS to the Chinese is that it would symbolize that they are now a “real space power,” equal to the other space powers in some sense. They crave this symbolism, according to several of the experts at the conference I attended. The experts stated that the Chinese _want_ to be invited to the ISS, and have indicated so on numerous occasions in private. (My suspicion is that they don’t voice this interest publicly because they view it as part of a delicate diplomatic dance: negotiate privately so that if you are rejected, nobody knows.)

So it may be delusional that such an offer would “put the US in a leadership position again,” but it is _not_ delusional that the Chinese want to be invited to ISS in some manner. Flying a taikonaut aboard a shuttle would also be a compromise: easier than qualifying Shenzhou for an ISS visit, and also less symbolic for the Chinese, more symbolic for the United States. The Chinese might reject it for this reason, but I don’t think it would be easy for them to do so.

They also do not currently have, and will not have for at least 5-10 years, the capability of building their own space station. One should not allow a dislike of the ISS to obscure the fact that it is still a strong (and positive) symbol for many.

Pure delusion. Does this mean that if China flies a single astronaut aboard a Shenzhou, as would seem far more possible, given that they have an operating space tranpsort system and we do not, would that put them in a “clear leadership position” regarding us? One that we and/or the rest of the world would acknowledge? Didn’t think so.

Anyhow, if China, seeing what a GawdAwfulDeadAlbatrossTarBabyDisaster the ISS has become, nonetheless decide to yoke themselves to it, then I suppose they’d get everything they deserve. If one is really paranoid about China’s emerging space capabilities, then this would be a great way to ensure that nothing useful comes of it.

On the other hand, giving the Chinese credit for a even a smidgeon of brains, it’s hard to see them going for this. I seriously doubt they’d bite, when in all probability they could put up their own Salyut-class station more quickly and more cheaply than “cooperation” could get them on the ISS.

Yeah, that logic worked so well with Russia when they joined ISS…

Turns out the whole thing is a waste of taxpayer money, that it was oversold from the beginning, and exists only because (a) a blatant falsehood about industrial utilisation of ISS was told during the vote to cancel the program in the early 90s, and (b) because no one has the political will to cancel it now. Instead, it bleeds to death by a thousand cuts.

— Donald