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	<title>Comments on: $3-billion model airplanes</title>
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	<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=3-billion-model-airplanes</link>
	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Mike Puckett</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7347</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Puckett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;However, Rand, spending more while decreasing what you take in, especially if the money is not invested in capital infrastructure or training, is historically likely to get any economic entity into trouble. 

-- Donald&quot;

A Rate Cut does not equal &#039;decreasing what you take in&#039;.

Please google on the words &#039;Laffer Curve&#039; for more clarification.




]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, Rand, spending more while decreasing what you take in, especially if the money is not invested in capital infrastructure or training, is historically likely to get any economic entity into trouble. </p>
<p>&#8212; Donald&#8221;</p>
<p>A Rate Cut does not equal &#8216;decreasing what you take in&#8217;.</p>
<p>Please google on the words &#8216;Laffer Curve&#8217; for more clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: Chance</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7346</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;And his &quot;important point&quot; is what? That we have to choose between space exploration and feeding the elderly? That&#039;s the oldest argument in the book, and it hasn&#039;t improved with age.&quot;

The important point is that if you cannot justify the expenditures to the politicions, and they in turn cannot justify it to their constituancies, you will not get the resources you want.  The choice presented (elderly vs. space) may in fact be a false choice, but in politics this may be irrelevant, as it is often the emotional rather than the logical argument that wins.  

The proposal by Alistair is a step in the right direction, but I would propose an even more far reaching campaign, composed of the website, TV/radio ads, and enlistment of celebrities to the cause.  An initial &quot;blitz&quot; followed by a &quot;got milk&quot; or &quot;the power of cheese&quot; style ad campaign would be expensive, but would have a good chance of suceeding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And his &#8220;important point&#8221; is what? That we have to choose between space exploration and feeding the elderly? That&#8217;s the oldest argument in the book, and it hasn&#8217;t improved with age.&#8221;</p>
<p>The important point is that if you cannot justify the expenditures to the politicions, and they in turn cannot justify it to their constituancies, you will not get the resources you want.  The choice presented (elderly vs. space) may in fact be a false choice, but in politics this may be irrelevant, as it is often the emotional rather than the logical argument that wins.  </p>
<p>The proposal by Alistair is a step in the right direction, but I would propose an even more far reaching campaign, composed of the website, TV/radio ads, and enlistment of celebrities to the cause.  An initial &#8220;blitz&#8221; followed by a &#8220;got milk&#8221; or &#8220;the power of cheese&#8221; style ad campaign would be expensive, but would have a good chance of suceeding.</p>
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		<title>By: Shubber Ali</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7345</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shubber Ali]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this thread has lost sight of the original point.

The elderly vote.  They support programs, and vote for politicians, that are in their self-interest - as does everyone else.

The space community has long suffered from willful ignorance of this fact.  It doesn&#039;t matter if we care about a comet probe or a mars lander - if the average *voting* american doesn&#039;t, that budget is open to being cut.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this thread has lost sight of the original point.</p>
<p>The elderly vote.  They support programs, and vote for politicians, that are in their self-interest &#8211; as does everyone else.</p>
<p>The space community has long suffered from willful ignorance of this fact.  It doesn&#8217;t matter if we care about a comet probe or a mars lander &#8211; if the average *voting* american doesn&#8217;t, that budget is open to being cut.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Kuperberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7344</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Kuperberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Donald Robertson: &lt;i&gt;There is no greater threat to space exploration, of whatever variety, than Mr. Bush&#039;s apparently total ignorance of basic Quicken skills.&lt;/i&gt;

Or rather, willful denial.  I don&#039;t think that the man is that stupid.

Rand Simberg: &lt;i&gt;Sorry, Greg, but no one, including the CBO, knows what revenues would have been in the absence of those rate cuts (we can&#039;t do controlled experiments), so no one knows their actual effect on revenues.&lt;/i&gt;

CBO methodology certainly is subject to experiment and they have a perfectly respectable track record.  Their what-if-we-don&#039;t&#039;s are therefore just as credible as their what-if-we-do&#039;s.  So your assertion that no one has any idea how it would have been otherwise is counterfactual, but in any case it doesn&#039;t matter.  If you look at what is actually happening with the tax policies that we have, the question is, do you want spending rates to match tax rates or don&#039;t you?  If you do, the simplest solution is to eliminate non-defense discretionary spending.  No NASA and no Meals on Wheels either; the whole slate of alternatives should just be thrown out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donald Robertson: <i>There is no greater threat to space exploration, of whatever variety, than Mr. Bush&#8217;s apparently total ignorance of basic Quicken skills.</i></p>
<p>Or rather, willful denial.  I don&#8217;t think that the man is that stupid.</p>
<p>Rand Simberg: <i>Sorry, Greg, but no one, including the CBO, knows what revenues would have been in the absence of those rate cuts (we can&#8217;t do controlled experiments), so no one knows their actual effect on revenues.</i></p>
<p>CBO methodology certainly is subject to experiment and they have a perfectly respectable track record.  Their what-if-we-don&#8217;t&#8217;s are therefore just as credible as their what-if-we-do&#8217;s.  So your assertion that no one has any idea how it would have been otherwise is counterfactual, but in any case it doesn&#8217;t matter.  If you look at what is actually happening with the tax policies that we have, the question is, do you want spending rates to match tax rates or don&#8217;t you?  If you do, the simplest solution is to eliminate non-defense discretionary spending.  No NASA and no Meals on Wheels either; the whole slate of alternatives should just be thrown out.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7343</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[However, Rand, spending more while decreasing what you take in, especially if the money is not invested in capital infrastructure or training, is historically likely to get any economic entity into trouble.  

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However, Rand, spending more while decreasing what you take in, especially if the money is not invested in capital infrastructure or training, is historically likely to get any economic entity into trouble.  </p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7342</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Greg, but &lt;b&gt;no one&lt;/b&gt;, including the CBO, knows what revenues would have been in the absence of those rate cuts (we can&#039;t do controlled experiments), so no one knows their actual effect on revenues.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Greg, but <b>no one</b>, including the CBO, knows what revenues would have been in the absence of those rate cuts (we can&#8217;t do controlled experiments), so no one knows their actual effect on revenues.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7341</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In this (if nothing else) I fully agree with Greg.  There is no greater threat to space exploration, of whatever variety, than Mr. Bush&#039;s apparently total ignorance of basic Quicken skills.  

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this (if nothing else) I fully agree with Greg.  There is no greater threat to space exploration, of whatever variety, than Mr. Bush&#8217;s apparently total ignorance of basic Quicken skills.  </p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Kuperberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Kuperberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That depends on who &quot;we&quot; are.  Those of us who look at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbo.gov/budget/historical.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;historical budget data&lt;/a&gt; compiled by the Congressional Budget Office know exactly how it&#039;s been through 2005.  That was already the fourth year of the Bush tax cut, and also well into the period that the Republicans described as a booming economy.  So there it was, an enormous deficit in a time of plenty.  Given the Republican claim that Social Security is facing a crisis, the relevant number to consider is the on-budget deficit, which was $493 billion.  As I said, it slightly exceeds total non-defense discretionary spending.

And those of who look at the CBO&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbo.gov/budget/budproj.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fiscal projections&lt;/a&gt; have no reason to doubt them.  It is true that the CBO projections can be off by $50 billion or so, sometimes even $100 billion.  But the real future deficit may just as well be higher as lower.  There is no reason to believe that the CBO is suddenly unusually stupid in the face of tax policies that are now four years old.

(Note that the corresponding White House department, OMB, has made rather less accurate and more confusing &quot;predictions&quot; in the past few years.)

But it is true that if you don&#039;t know or don&#039;t care about these authoritative references, then you may well not know how much money we&#039;re talking about.

Anyway, as I said, if we are really to take Bush&#039;s tax policies seriously, it is time to wipe the non-defense, discretionary slate clean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That depends on who &#8220;we&#8221; are.  Those of us who look at the <a href="http://www.cbo.gov/budget/historical.pdf" rel="nofollow">historical budget data</a> compiled by the Congressional Budget Office know exactly how it&#8217;s been through 2005.  That was already the fourth year of the Bush tax cut, and also well into the period that the Republicans described as a booming economy.  So there it was, an enormous deficit in a time of plenty.  Given the Republican claim that Social Security is facing a crisis, the relevant number to consider is the on-budget deficit, which was $493 billion.  As I said, it slightly exceeds total non-defense discretionary spending.</p>
<p>And those of who look at the CBO&#8217;s <a href="http://www.cbo.gov/budget/budproj.pdf" rel="nofollow">fiscal projections</a> have no reason to doubt them.  It is true that the CBO projections can be off by $50 billion or so, sometimes even $100 billion.  But the real future deficit may just as well be higher as lower.  There is no reason to believe that the CBO is suddenly unusually stupid in the face of tax policies that are now four years old.</p>
<p>(Note that the corresponding White House department, OMB, has made rather less accurate and more confusing &#8220;predictions&#8221; in the past few years.)</p>
<p>But it is true that if you don&#8217;t know or don&#8217;t care about these authoritative references, then you may well not know how much money we&#8217;re talking about.</p>
<p>Anyway, as I said, if we are really to take Bush&#8217;s tax policies seriously, it is time to wipe the non-defense, discretionary slate clean.</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7339</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7339</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem with that argument (among many) is that we don&#039;t know how much money we&#039;re talking about, and what the sign is on it, since it was in fact a rate cut, and not a tax cut.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with that argument (among many) is that we don&#8217;t know how much money we&#8217;re talking about, and what the sign is on it, since it was in fact a rate cut, and not a tax cut.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Kuperberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2006/03/16/3-billion-model-airplanes/#comment-7338</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Kuperberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.districtofbaseball.com/spacepolitics/?p=890#comment-7338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s just take the Bush tax cut as a sincere statement of how much money the federal government should spend.  Let&#039;s also accept the Republican position that defense spending is important and should not be cut.  They also say that Social Security and Medicare should be repaired.  They imply a conception of separate financing for these two programs, and also that the recipients &#8212; namely all senior citizens &#8212; are getting too little rather than too much.  In any case said recipients see their benefits largely as their own lifetime of tax payments coming back to them.

That leaves non-defense discretionary spending.  In order to match tax cuts with spending cuts &#8212; or to use Rand&#039;s terminology, tax rate cuts with spending rate cuts &#8212; we should eliminate non-defense discretionary spending.    No NASA, no NIH, no transportation bill, no &quot;meals on wheels&quot; either.  If we are going to take the Bush tax cut (or tax &quot;rate&quot; cut) seriously, it&#039;s time to wipe the slate clean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s just take the Bush tax cut as a sincere statement of how much money the federal government should spend.  Let&#8217;s also accept the Republican position that defense spending is important and should not be cut.  They also say that Social Security and Medicare should be repaired.  They imply a conception of separate financing for these two programs, and also that the recipients &mdash; namely all senior citizens &mdash; are getting too little rather than too much.  In any case said recipients see their benefits largely as their own lifetime of tax payments coming back to them.</p>
<p>That leaves non-defense discretionary spending.  In order to match tax cuts with spending cuts &mdash; or to use Rand&#8217;s terminology, tax rate cuts with spending rate cuts &mdash; we should eliminate non-defense discretionary spending.    No NASA, no NIH, no transportation bill, no &#8220;meals on wheels&#8221; either.  If we are going to take the Bush tax cut (or tax &#8220;rate&#8221; cut) seriously, it&#8217;s time to wipe the slate clean.</p>
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