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	<title>Comments on: Ares/Orion hearing next week</title>
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	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: anonymous.space</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-25747</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymous.space]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 09:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-25747</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;He made the decision to tell his honest opinion on NASA safety issues and what went wrong when Columbia was lost, possibly at the cost of contractorsâ€™ ire.&quot;

I don&#039;t know Gilbrech from Adam, but this doesn&#039;t seem like much of a recommendation to me.  Pointing out safety problems after losing a mission or crew is much easier than pointing them out before such a tragedy occurs.  I also don&#039;t understand why a NASA employee at any level would be worried about &quot;contractors&#039; ire&quot;.

Not a knock against Gilbrech, but I&#039;d argue that this &quot;character testimony&quot; (if you wil), at least as decribed, is not a point in Gilbrech&#039;s favor, either.

Personally, even not knowing the man, I have very high expectations for Gilbrech to fix of a lot of the mess his predecessor left behind.  But even if he&#039;s so inclined, I&#039;m also very doubtful that Gilbrech will be allowed to take the necessary steps, given who his boss is.

My 2 cents... FWIW...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He made the decision to tell his honest opinion on NASA safety issues and what went wrong when Columbia was lost, possibly at the cost of contractorsâ€™ ire.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know Gilbrech from Adam, but this doesn&#8217;t seem like much of a recommendation to me.  Pointing out safety problems after losing a mission or crew is much easier than pointing them out before such a tragedy occurs.  I also don&#8217;t understand why a NASA employee at any level would be worried about &#8220;contractors&#8217; ire&#8221;.</p>
<p>Not a knock against Gilbrech, but I&#8217;d argue that this &#8220;character testimony&#8221; (if you wil), at least as decribed, is not a point in Gilbrech&#8217;s favor, either.</p>
<p>Personally, even not knowing the man, I have very high expectations for Gilbrech to fix of a lot of the mess his predecessor left behind.  But even if he&#8217;s so inclined, I&#8217;m also very doubtful that Gilbrech will be allowed to take the necessary steps, given who his boss is.</p>
<p>My 2 cents&#8230; FWIW&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: T. Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-25627</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T. Parker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-25627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m no technical expert on space technology but I can say that I&#039;ve known Rick Gilbrech for almost 20 years, and he&#039;s the real deal.  What you see is what you get with him.  When he was on the engineering safety program, he had to make some tough decisions.  He made the decision to tell his honest opinion on NASA safety issues and what went wrong when Columbia was lost, possibly at the cost of contractors&#039; ire.  He&#039;s not a politician. He&#039;s a scientist with a longtime love for the space program.  I can assure you that he will do his best in this new position to make the Orion program sound, safe, and fiscally responsible no matter what pressure the political machine in Washington has to offer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m no technical expert on space technology but I can say that I&#8217;ve known Rick Gilbrech for almost 20 years, and he&#8217;s the real deal.  What you see is what you get with him.  When he was on the engineering safety program, he had to make some tough decisions.  He made the decision to tell his honest opinion on NASA safety issues and what went wrong when Columbia was lost, possibly at the cost of contractors&#8217; ire.  He&#8217;s not a politician. He&#8217;s a scientist with a longtime love for the space program.  I can assure you that he will do his best in this new position to make the Orion program sound, safe, and fiscally responsible no matter what pressure the political machine in Washington has to offer.</p>
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		<title>By: D. Messier</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24660</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D. Messier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24660</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t imagine that anyone wants to deal with the program&#039;s deeper problems at this point. There only 15 months left in an adminstration that is legendary for denying problems and staying the course regardless of how much evidence piles up. Difficult to imagine either side wanting to get into that sort of fight with so many other important to handle.

No, I imagine they&#039;ll muddle along for the next 15 months and then the next president will have to sort out the mess. Probably in Spring 2009.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t imagine that anyone wants to deal with the program&#8217;s deeper problems at this point. There only 15 months left in an adminstration that is legendary for denying problems and staying the course regardless of how much evidence piles up. Difficult to imagine either side wanting to get into that sort of fight with so many other important to handle.</p>
<p>No, I imagine they&#8217;ll muddle along for the next 15 months and then the next president will have to sort out the mess. Probably in Spring 2009.</p>
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		<title>By: Space Politics &#187; Ares/Orion hearing delayed</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24600</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Space Politics &#187; Ares/Orion hearing delayed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 23:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24600</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] scheduled hearing about the status of the Ares 1 and Orion programs has been postponed, according to an updated scheduled circulated late Friday by the House Science [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] scheduled hearing about the status of the Ares 1 and Orion programs has been postponed, according to an updated scheduled circulated late Friday by the House Science [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Cowing</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24588</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Keith Cowing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;&quot;Keith, everytime you say that we have no influence and are technically not credible makes what is coming up that much sweeter. So I guess we have a win win.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

Enjoy your delusions, Stephen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Keith, everytime you say that we have no influence and are technically not credible makes what is coming up that much sweeter. So I guess we have a win win.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Enjoy your delusions, Stephen.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Metschan</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24580</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen Metschan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Keith, everytime you say that we have no influence and are technically not credible makes what is coming up that much sweeter.  So I guess we have a win win.

History will at least be able to use all these great quotes as an example of how far off everyone elses thinking was.  At least their public positions anyway.

And no I donâ€™t believe in conspiracy theories, they take way to much competency and coordination to pull off.  Ironically we wouldnâ€™t have these problems if they had the necessary skills needed to pull off a â€œconspiracyâ€ in the first place.  What is going on is based largely on ego being projected thru bully tactics.

Anyway there is not much more point in engaging you further, the reality of all of this will be evident soon enough.

Peace, keep up the good work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, everytime you say that we have no influence and are technically not credible makes what is coming up that much sweeter.  So I guess we have a win win.</p>
<p>History will at least be able to use all these great quotes as an example of how far off everyone elses thinking was.  At least their public positions anyway.</p>
<p>And no I donâ€™t believe in conspiracy theories, they take way to much competency and coordination to pull off.  Ironically we wouldnâ€™t have these problems if they had the necessary skills needed to pull off a â€œconspiracyâ€ in the first place.  What is going on is based largely on ego being projected thru bully tactics.</p>
<p>Anyway there is not much more point in engaging you further, the reality of all of this will be evident soon enough.</p>
<p>Peace, keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Cowing</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24531</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Keith Cowing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 01:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24531</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stephen you really have no idea what you are talking about. Indeed every time you go off on one of these conspiracy mongering rants you reduce the credibility of your &quot;team&quot; and your &quot;concept&quot; even further.  But far be it for me to interrupt the entertainment.

This is how Washington works:  If people tell you that they are in a  position to influence NASA and/or Griffin do, then they most certainly are not in such a position. 

The people who actually do have such capabilities never say such things.

They don&#039;t need to.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen you really have no idea what you are talking about. Indeed every time you go off on one of these conspiracy mongering rants you reduce the credibility of your &#8220;team&#8221; and your &#8220;concept&#8221; even further.  But far be it for me to interrupt the entertainment.</p>
<p>This is how Washington works:  If people tell you that they are in a  position to influence NASA and/or Griffin do, then they most certainly are not in such a position. </p>
<p>The people who actually do have such capabilities never say such things.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t need to.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Metschan</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24522</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen Metschan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Keith, that makes perfect sense from my experience.  Maybe thatâ€™s why they are giving you the party line right now.  Itâ€™s hard to get fired by basically giving you the same information that is on the PAO reports with a dash of the DIRECT concept is DOA to increase the party loyalty level.

I would suggest that maybe some information is so sensitive and tightly held that its very publication at NASA Watch would reveal its source, hence the problem you mentioned and the disconnect between us on our respective view of what is actually going on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, that makes perfect sense from my experience.  Maybe thatâ€™s why they are giving you the party line right now.  Itâ€™s hard to get fired by basically giving you the same information that is on the PAO reports with a dash of the DIRECT concept is DOA to increase the party loyalty level.</p>
<p>I would suggest that maybe some information is so sensitive and tightly held that its very publication at NASA Watch would reveal its source, hence the problem you mentioned and the disconnect between us on our respective view of what is actually going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Cowing</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24513</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Keith Cowing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;&quot;Keith on this issue you are just plain dead wrong. I think you need to cast the net higher for your sources. When is the last time you talked to anyone near Mike?&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

Tee hee hee - the answer would get some people fired ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Keith on this issue you are just plain dead wrong. I think you need to cast the net higher for your sources. When is the last time you talked to anyone near Mike?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Tee hee hee &#8211; the answer would get some people fired &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24504</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/10/16/aresorion-hearing-next-week/#comment-24504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anonymous:  &lt;i&gt;My 2 cents is that an EELV winner in COTS is not necessarily a bad thing. One, NASA pursuing an EELV option for ISS resupply makes the argument for expensively duplicating EELV capabilities in Ares I that much harder. Two, one of the two original COTS picks arguably should have been a lower-cost, lower-risk, low-development (all of which point to EELV), maybe cargo-only option to help ensure that NASA got something useful out of a very limited investment and to help ensure that the procurement/business model got proven. &lt;/i&gt;

I fully agree . . . and even when I don&#039;t, your analysis is worth a lot more than two cents!

An EELV-derived cargo solution would keep competitive pressure on SpaceX while also providing a &lt;i&gt;commercial&lt;/i&gt; solution.  If your goal is to jump start a commercial space cargo industry -- rather than develop new technology -- (which is my goal) than such a development is ideal.  Once EELV and SpaceX (if they get that far) are competing for Space Station delivery, probably also with foreign solutions, there will be an incentive to reduce costs and develop new technology -- and in that case the $500 million may prove to be enough.  

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous:  <i>My 2 cents is that an EELV winner in COTS is not necessarily a bad thing. One, NASA pursuing an EELV option for ISS resupply makes the argument for expensively duplicating EELV capabilities in Ares I that much harder. Two, one of the two original COTS picks arguably should have been a lower-cost, lower-risk, low-development (all of which point to EELV), maybe cargo-only option to help ensure that NASA got something useful out of a very limited investment and to help ensure that the procurement/business model got proven. </i></p>
<p>I fully agree . . . and even when I don&#8217;t, your analysis is worth a lot more than two cents!</p>
<p>An EELV-derived cargo solution would keep competitive pressure on SpaceX while also providing a <i>commercial</i> solution.  If your goal is to jump start a commercial space cargo industry &#8212; rather than develop new technology &#8212; (which is my goal) than such a development is ideal.  Once EELV and SpaceX (if they get that far) are competing for Space Station delivery, probably also with foreign solutions, there will be an incentive to reduce costs and develop new technology &#8212; and in that case the $500 million may prove to be enough.  </p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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