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	<title>Comments on: A structural shift in space policy?</title>
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	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Chuck2200</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck2200]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;On the off-topic discussion; why does it make sense to replace Griffin as fast as possible? Isnâ€™t it far too late for that? Isnâ€™t it better to wait under a year to let whomever is elected the new President decide? That way one gets a NASA administrator at least initially supported by a White House administration.&quot;

The VSE, on the whole, is a good program, and has actually gotten thru Congress and stamped as the way forward. But Griffin&#039;s implementation of it threatens to take the entire thing down. If that happens, it is unlikely that Congress will be predisposed to fund another â€œgrand scheme of thingsâ€ for a very long tome. 

If Griffin is quickly replaced, at least there is still time to replace his pet launchers with something that actually works, thereby saving the VSE itself. After being stuck in LEO for more than 30 years, it would be a shame to loose this opportunity to move beyond it solely because of the incompetence of the one man.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;On the off-topic discussion; why does it make sense to replace Griffin as fast as possible? Isnâ€™t it far too late for that? Isnâ€™t it better to wait under a year to let whomever is elected the new President decide? That way one gets a NASA administrator at least initially supported by a White House administration.&#8221;</p>
<p>The VSE, on the whole, is a good program, and has actually gotten thru Congress and stamped as the way forward. But Griffin&#8217;s implementation of it threatens to take the entire thing down. If that happens, it is unlikely that Congress will be predisposed to fund another â€œgrand scheme of thingsâ€ for a very long tome. </p>
<p>If Griffin is quickly replaced, at least there is still time to replace his pet launchers with something that actually works, thereby saving the VSE itself. After being stuck in LEO for more than 30 years, it would be a shame to loose this opportunity to move beyond it solely because of the incompetence of the one man.</p>
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		<title>By: D. Messier</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32626</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D. Messier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 16:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32626</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Correction: Congress asked Justice to investigate NASA general counsel over the DVD destruction.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: Congress asked Justice to investigate NASA general counsel over the DVD destruction.</p>
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		<title>By: D. Messier</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32572</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D. Messier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 05:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bush could fire him for poor performance (the way his father fired Richard Truly). Since that will probably not happen, sure, why not make Griffin administrator for life?

Congress asked Justice to investigate the destruction of the IG meeting record. Anyone know what happened with that? Is there any likelihood that Justice will indict the IG (and Griffin with him)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush could fire him for poor performance (the way his father fired Richard Truly). Since that will probably not happen, sure, why not make Griffin administrator for life?</p>
<p>Congress asked Justice to investigate the destruction of the IG meeting record. Anyone know what happened with that? Is there any likelihood that Justice will indict the IG (and Griffin with him)?</p>
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		<title>By: Habitat Hermit</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Habitat Hermit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 01:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great conclusion Al ^_^

It felt like a somewhat over-optimistic article to me and I&#039;m worried that a lot of people would/do tend to advocate mostly based on a single &quot;holy grail&quot;. That makes for a single point of failure.

To me the greatest argument for both automated and human space exploration is all the things we do not currently know we will discover (provided we go) and benefit from both as pure knowledge and practical solutions. I.e. instead of betting on this or that possible ace of spades (or not, it might be a joker or even a blank card with this deck) we can get the whole deck of cards as long as we go to stay and keep at it.

The Space Review continues to provide interesting articles from regular contributers and others alike and I hope we&#039;ll see more from Kathleen Connell too.

On the off-topic discussion; why does it make sense to replace Griffin as fast as possible? Isn&#039;t it far too late for that? Isn&#039;t it better to wait under a year to let whomever is elected the new President decide? That way one gets a NASA administrator at least initially supported by a White House administration.

Indeed letting the ESAS approach bury itself deeply into the ground even in the eyes of Dr. Griffin and all other ESAS-supporters would be huge benefit for whomever takes over next. Nothing ends a failed approach with a minimum of unhelpful could-have-beens and what-ifs like a big smoking crater. As it seems incredibly likely this will happen during the next year why not let it play out? Rescuing NASA from itself right now will prove to do it and everyone else an immense disservice in my opinion and only allow NASA --from top to bottom and back up again-- to pretend it wasn&#039;t their own fault!

A new administrator before the election is probably not going to happen anyway  as I doubt all that many would be interested in the job for a small interim period of less than a year, perhaps even as little as half a year when taking into account the acting interim Administrators.

I think some of you commenters might be in space already ^_^;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great conclusion Al ^_^</p>
<p>It felt like a somewhat over-optimistic article to me and I&#8217;m worried that a lot of people would/do tend to advocate mostly based on a single &#8220;holy grail&#8221;. That makes for a single point of failure.</p>
<p>To me the greatest argument for both automated and human space exploration is all the things we do not currently know we will discover (provided we go) and benefit from both as pure knowledge and practical solutions. I.e. instead of betting on this or that possible ace of spades (or not, it might be a joker or even a blank card with this deck) we can get the whole deck of cards as long as we go to stay and keep at it.</p>
<p>The Space Review continues to provide interesting articles from regular contributers and others alike and I hope we&#8217;ll see more from Kathleen Connell too.</p>
<p>On the off-topic discussion; why does it make sense to replace Griffin as fast as possible? Isn&#8217;t it far too late for that? Isn&#8217;t it better to wait under a year to let whomever is elected the new President decide? That way one gets a NASA administrator at least initially supported by a White House administration.</p>
<p>Indeed letting the ESAS approach bury itself deeply into the ground even in the eyes of Dr. Griffin and all other ESAS-supporters would be huge benefit for whomever takes over next. Nothing ends a failed approach with a minimum of unhelpful could-have-beens and what-ifs like a big smoking crater. As it seems incredibly likely this will happen during the next year why not let it play out? Rescuing NASA from itself right now will prove to do it and everyone else an immense disservice in my opinion and only allow NASA &#8211;from top to bottom and back up again&#8211; to pretend it wasn&#8217;t their own fault!</p>
<p>A new administrator before the election is probably not going to happen anyway  as I doubt all that many would be interested in the job for a small interim period of less than a year, perhaps even as little as half a year when taking into account the acting interim Administrators.</p>
<p>I think some of you commenters might be in space already ^_^;</p>
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		<title>By: Vladislaw</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32523</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vladislaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry I forgot to ask, does anyone know what a ballpark figure would be for the 12 engines currently OFF THE SHELF that you could put together in this configuration and their cost, seems like a lot of engines to be throwing away, and what kind of lift capacity?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I forgot to ask, does anyone know what a ballpark figure would be for the 12 engines currently OFF THE SHELF that you could put together in this configuration and their cost, seems like a lot of engines to be throwing away, and what kind of lift capacity?</p>
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		<title>By: Vladislaw</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32520</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vladislaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The Ares design, his personal pet favorite, which he has pushed thru is proving to be extremely deficient and even if he succeeds in getting it to work, will, imho leave us stuck in LEO for another 30 years,&quot;

This current design seems like a major departure from what he first proposed with the FLO concept from 1992:

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/firtpost.htm

The &quot;COMET&quot; would use a total of 12 engines, core-5 F1s and two on each of the two strap on boosters, ( interesting note: NON Solid strap ons even after the SRBs had been on the shuttle for 10 years + ) and three J2S for the upper stage.

So I wonder if this design was &quot;suggested&quot; to be his pet favorite?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Ares design, his personal pet favorite, which he has pushed thru is proving to be extremely deficient and even if he succeeds in getting it to work, will, imho leave us stuck in LEO for another 30 years,&#8221;</p>
<p>This current design seems like a major departure from what he first proposed with the FLO concept from 1992:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.astronautix.com/craft/firtpost.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.astronautix.com/craft/firtpost.htm</a></p>
<p>The &#8220;COMET&#8221; would use a total of 12 engines, core-5 F1s and two on each of the two strap on boosters, ( interesting note: NON Solid strap ons even after the SRBs had been on the shuttle for 10 years + ) and three J2S for the upper stage.</p>
<p>So I wonder if this design was &#8220;suggested&#8221; to be his pet favorite?</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32493</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chuck2200:  &lt;i&gt;When Mike Griffin was first appointed I was thrilled that we would have a man at the top that was an actual rocket scientist. Was I wrong! I now know that what is needed instead is a good â€œadministratorâ€ who will actually listen to the â€œrocket scientistsâ€ in the agency and formulate his or her approach based on the advice of those people who actually do that stuff for a living.&lt;/i&gt;

This is only part of the requirement.  I agree that the last thing NASA needs at the top is a &quot;rocket scientist.&quot;  What NASA really needs is a consummate politician with a good understanding of the history of the development of commerce on difficult new frontiers.  Dr. Griffin has, on occasion, tried, but he has let his temper get in the way too often, and when he does act on the political front, he is has proven, frankly, incompetent.  

The saddest thing about this whole sorry experience is that the one single policy where the Bush Administration got it right -- the VSE -- was, in the end, bungled like everything else, partly because of the budgetary requirements of an insane war, partly through appointing the wrong person as Administrator, and partly through lack of attention.  Were the VSE to succeed, history in the long term would forget all the rest of the Administration&#039;s many disasters.  Unfortunately, it looks like there will be no such distraction.

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuck2200:  <i>When Mike Griffin was first appointed I was thrilled that we would have a man at the top that was an actual rocket scientist. Was I wrong! I now know that what is needed instead is a good â€œadministratorâ€ who will actually listen to the â€œrocket scientistsâ€ in the agency and formulate his or her approach based on the advice of those people who actually do that stuff for a living.</i></p>
<p>This is only part of the requirement.  I agree that the last thing NASA needs at the top is a &#8220;rocket scientist.&#8221;  What NASA really needs is a consummate politician with a good understanding of the history of the development of commerce on difficult new frontiers.  Dr. Griffin has, on occasion, tried, but he has let his temper get in the way too often, and when he does act on the political front, he is has proven, frankly, incompetent.  </p>
<p>The saddest thing about this whole sorry experience is that the one single policy where the Bush Administration got it right &#8212; the VSE &#8212; was, in the end, bungled like everything else, partly because of the budgetary requirements of an insane war, partly through appointing the wrong person as Administrator, and partly through lack of attention.  Were the VSE to succeed, history in the long term would forget all the rest of the Administration&#8217;s many disasters.  Unfortunately, it looks like there will be no such distraction.</p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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		<title>By: Context LLC</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32485</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Context LLC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Resign? Please spare us. If you think that any of these bad actors, Michael Griffin and his band of prima donna astronauts and incompetent engineers, Conrad Lautenbacher and his band of incompetent generals, John Marburger, and his, well, it&#039;s just him, or Dick Cheney or even George W. Bush, if you think any of these horsemen of the American Apocalypse have any intention of resigning in the light of glaring incompetence and failure, you&#039;re deluded.

If anything, it&#039;s going to be a continuation of their scorched Earth policies right up until the end, and beyond. That&#039;s generally how these things work out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Resign? Please spare us. If you think that any of these bad actors, Michael Griffin and his band of prima donna astronauts and incompetent engineers, Conrad Lautenbacher and his band of incompetent generals, John Marburger, and his, well, it&#8217;s just him, or Dick Cheney or even George W. Bush, if you think any of these horsemen of the American Apocalypse have any intention of resigning in the light of glaring incompetence and failure, you&#8217;re deluded.</p>
<p>If anything, it&#8217;s going to be a continuation of their scorched Earth policies right up until the end, and beyond. That&#8217;s generally how these things work out.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck2200</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32419</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck2200]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One more thought to add. Mike Griffinâ€™s comments about the Air Safety report is just another example of why he needs to go. The man obviously, &lt;b&gt;imo&lt;/b&gt;, doesnâ€™t give a sweet tinkers da*m about you and me. Air traffic safety, to him, is a waste of time and you and I should not bother our little selves thinking about such things. Not to worry. Mommy has everything well in hand. IMHO, the man is arrogant, snooty, aloof, nasty, uncaring and elitist. In Bush Srâ€™s original campaign way back when, he was asked (I am told) about the domestic situation. His response was that he had nothing against domestics and believed that everybody should have one. Mike Griffinâ€™s grasp of reality is even lower than that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thought to add. Mike Griffinâ€™s comments about the Air Safety report is just another example of why he needs to go. The man obviously, <b>imo</b>, doesnâ€™t give a sweet tinkers da*m about you and me. Air traffic safety, to him, is a waste of time and you and I should not bother our little selves thinking about such things. Not to worry. Mommy has everything well in hand. IMHO, the man is arrogant, snooty, aloof, nasty, uncaring and elitist. In Bush Srâ€™s original campaign way back when, he was asked (I am told) about the domestic situation. His response was that he had nothing against domestics and believed that everybody should have one. Mike Griffinâ€™s grasp of reality is even lower than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck2200</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32417</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck2200]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 02:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2007/12/31/a-structural-shift-in-space-policy/#comment-32417</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with all the above posters about it being time for Griffin to go, and with the need to de-Bushify, not only the space agency, but the entire federal apparatus. When Mike Griffin was first appointed I was thrilled that we would have a man at the top that was an actual rocket scientist. Was I wrong! I now know that what is needed instead is a good â€œadministratorâ€ who will actually listen to the â€œrocket scientistsâ€ in the agency and formulate his or her approach based on the advice of those people who actually do that stuff for a living.

The Ares design, his personal pet favorite, which he has pushed thru is proving to be extremely deficient and even if he succeeds in getting it to work, will, imho leave us stuck in LEO for another 30 years, because I donâ€™t believe that the Congress, after seeing what an absolute mess he has made of this entire effort, will be willing to pony up the money to fund his building still another companion rocket to go side by side with it. He has championed a launch system that will end up crippling the American manned space effort for years to come unless it is replace with something that actually works, quickly.

He needs to go, and the sooner the better. And he needs to be replaced by someone more dedicated to the VSE than to his or her personal pet project.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with all the above posters about it being time for Griffin to go, and with the need to de-Bushify, not only the space agency, but the entire federal apparatus. When Mike Griffin was first appointed I was thrilled that we would have a man at the top that was an actual rocket scientist. Was I wrong! I now know that what is needed instead is a good â€œadministratorâ€ who will actually listen to the â€œrocket scientistsâ€ in the agency and formulate his or her approach based on the advice of those people who actually do that stuff for a living.</p>
<p>The Ares design, his personal pet favorite, which he has pushed thru is proving to be extremely deficient and even if he succeeds in getting it to work, will, imho leave us stuck in LEO for another 30 years, because I donâ€™t believe that the Congress, after seeing what an absolute mess he has made of this entire effort, will be willing to pony up the money to fund his building still another companion rocket to go side by side with it. He has championed a launch system that will end up crippling the American manned space effort for years to come unless it is replace with something that actually works, quickly.</p>
<p>He needs to go, and the sooner the better. And he needs to be replaced by someone more dedicated to the VSE than to his or her personal pet project.</p>
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