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	<title>Comments on: Martinez: shorten the gap, but retire the shuttle</title>
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	<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle</link>
	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Left Flank &#187; Space, the Vision Thing</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34857</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Left Flank &#187; Space, the Vision Thing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] gap. Giuliani believes it&#8217;s a &#8216;money issue&#8217;; Martinez wants to extend the working life of the space shuttle. But, 2013, at the minimum, is a long time to fly [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] gap. Giuliani believes it&#8217;s a &#8216;money issue&#8217;; Martinez wants to extend the working life of the space shuttle. But, 2013, at the minimum, is a long time to fly [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Habitat Hermit</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34591</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Habitat Hermit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And then there&#039;s the political part of the equation: jobs. How does the various alternatives commercial or not satisfy this part?

I don&#039;t know how many of you have actually read the Direct v2.0 AIAA pdf* but it seems to me it&#039;s the alternative that retains most jobs. It also retains contracts for the same companies that have gotten contracts for the ESAS/Constellation approach. I.e. Direct v2.0 introduces a minimum of political and contractual noise while supplying an approach that is much more practical and feasible than the present ESAS/Constellation implementation.

The EELV and/or COTS alternatives do not retain most of the workforce however the Direct v2.0 seems likely to be so much cheaper that it frees up more than necessary resources to utilize either or both of those for LEO missions/ISS and then in addition have enough left over to take the pressure off the rest of NASA and the rest of the VSE.

Does anyone know whether the Representatives have been thoroughly briefed on this solution? Someone should also brief them on the current laudable efforts of  John Benac &amp; co at www.actionforspace.com (linked in John&#039;s comment further up).

* Click my name to go to the Direct website and it&#039;s available in both high and low resolution right there on the front page.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And then there&#8217;s the political part of the equation: jobs. How does the various alternatives commercial or not satisfy this part?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how many of you have actually read the Direct v2.0 AIAA pdf* but it seems to me it&#8217;s the alternative that retains most jobs. It also retains contracts for the same companies that have gotten contracts for the ESAS/Constellation approach. I.e. Direct v2.0 introduces a minimum of political and contractual noise while supplying an approach that is much more practical and feasible than the present ESAS/Constellation implementation.</p>
<p>The EELV and/or COTS alternatives do not retain most of the workforce however the Direct v2.0 seems likely to be so much cheaper that it frees up more than necessary resources to utilize either or both of those for LEO missions/ISS and then in addition have enough left over to take the pressure off the rest of NASA and the rest of the VSE.</p>
<p>Does anyone know whether the Representatives have been thoroughly briefed on this solution? Someone should also brief them on the current laudable efforts of  John Benac &amp; co at <a href="http://www.actionforspace.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.actionforspace.com</a> (linked in John&#8217;s comment further up).</p>
<p>* Click my name to go to the Direct website and it&#8217;s available in both high and low resolution right there on the front page.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Fansome</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Al Fansome]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[J.B. &lt;i&gt;NASA should focus on developing Orion/Ares for the Moon-Mars-Beyond and leave Earth orbit stuff to private industry.&lt;/i&gt;

READER: &lt;i&gt; No, NASA should focus on developing lunar hardware and leave the launching to existing solutions. CEV ? Fine, there is no commercial option on the offer right now, so build it, but make it fit on and launch it using existing launchers on market.

And for chrissake, start working on the actual lunar hardware.&lt;/i&gt;

I think this is where the real space policy debate should be focused.  It would be wonderful if this was the core debate.

NASA should be focused  Beyond Earth orbit, and should hand off LEO immediately (e.g. COTS and ISS crew/cargo services), on hand-off other space transportation needs as much as absolutely possible.

I think the Aldridge Commission was saying this.

- Al]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.B. <i>NASA should focus on developing Orion/Ares for the Moon-Mars-Beyond and leave Earth orbit stuff to private industry.</i></p>
<p>READER: <i> No, NASA should focus on developing lunar hardware and leave the launching to existing solutions. CEV ? Fine, there is no commercial option on the offer right now, so build it, but make it fit on and launch it using existing launchers on market.</p>
<p>And for chrissake, start working on the actual lunar hardware.</i></p>
<p>I think this is where the real space policy debate should be focused.  It would be wonderful if this was the core debate.</p>
<p>NASA should be focused  Beyond Earth orbit, and should hand off LEO immediately (e.g. COTS and ISS crew/cargo services), on hand-off other space transportation needs as much as absolutely possible.</p>
<p>I think the Aldridge Commission was saying this.</p>
<p>&#8211; Al</p>
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		<title>By: reader</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34513</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[reader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;NASA should focus on developing Orion/Ares for the Moon-Mars-Beyond and leave Earth orbit stuff to private industry.&lt;/i&gt;
No, NASA should focus on developing lunar hardware and leave the launching to existing solutions. CEV ? Fine, there is no commercial option on the offer right now, so build it, but make it fit on and launch it using existing launchers on market. 
And for chrissake, start working on the actual lunar hardware.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>NASA should focus on developing Orion/Ares for the Moon-Mars-Beyond and leave Earth orbit stuff to private industry.</i><br />
No, NASA should focus on developing lunar hardware and leave the launching to existing solutions. CEV ? Fine, there is no commercial option on the offer right now, so build it, but make it fit on and launch it using existing launchers on market.<br />
And for chrissake, start working on the actual lunar hardware.</p>
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		<title>By: John Benac</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34479</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Benac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem with getting legislation off the ground like this sometimes is that even when it becomes a proposed bill, supporters have a hard time tracking it through the house and senate and knowing when to squeeze their legislators. Thats one of the reasons that I created actionforspace.com 

With a website dedicated to enabling would be space activists to move on their representatives, rather than paying membership dues to some organization and hoping that they do it for them, We can get more pressure on the representatives to know and do what we want them to do.

www.actionforspace.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with getting legislation off the ground like this sometimes is that even when it becomes a proposed bill, supporters have a hard time tracking it through the house and senate and knowing when to squeeze their legislators. Thats one of the reasons that I created actionforspace.com </p>
<p>With a website dedicated to enabling would be space activists to move on their representatives, rather than paying membership dues to some organization and hoping that they do it for them, We can get more pressure on the representatives to know and do what we want them to do.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.actionforspace.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.actionforspace.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: J.B.</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34473</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 04:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe I&#039;m alone on this one, but it seems only logical to me that NASA should focus on developing Orion/Ares for the Moon-Mars-Beyond and leave Earth orbit stuff to private industry.

Why does it always seem to degenerate into an either-or question? We need both.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I&#8217;m alone on this one, but it seems only logical to me that NASA should focus on developing Orion/Ares for the Moon-Mars-Beyond and leave Earth orbit stuff to private industry.</p>
<p>Why does it always seem to degenerate into an either-or question? We need both.</p>
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		<title>By: Vladislaw</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34446</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vladislaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If NASA canceled the space shuttle in 2010 and canceled the ares1 and orion today, how much could be put towards Ares V right away? Personally I think whoever comes in after the next election will cancel Ares V. I believe it is more important to get going on a HLLV and let the commerical sector handle LEO.
If NASA said &quot;we will pay 12 million a seat and will buy 100 seats a year on the open market like an airline ticket&quot;  Could/Would the commerical sector handle it by 2012?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If NASA canceled the space shuttle in 2010 and canceled the ares1 and orion today, how much could be put towards Ares V right away? Personally I think whoever comes in after the next election will cancel Ares V. I believe it is more important to get going on a HLLV and let the commerical sector handle LEO.<br />
If NASA said &#8220;we will pay 12 million a seat and will buy 100 seats a year on the open market like an airline ticket&#8221;  Could/Would the commerical sector handle it by 2012?</p>
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		<title>By: Ferris Valyn</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34418</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ferris Valyn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Charles - I appreciate the effort to keep the comment short.  However, the simple fact is, most of the Congresspeople and Senators from Florida are focus on CEV or Shuttle (or some variation). 

Both ideas are crap, and we need to do everything we can to encourage them to get over the idea that space vehicles must be own by Nasa to be serious.  In fact, I&#039;d argue we&#039;d be much better off if Nasa didn&#039;t own the vehicles at all.

Point being - don&#039;t argue for CEV or shuttle - argue for something better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles &#8211; I appreciate the effort to keep the comment short.  However, the simple fact is, most of the Congresspeople and Senators from Florida are focus on CEV or Shuttle (or some variation). </p>
<p>Both ideas are crap, and we need to do everything we can to encourage them to get over the idea that space vehicles must be own by Nasa to be serious.  In fact, I&#8217;d argue we&#8217;d be much better off if Nasa didn&#8217;t own the vehicles at all.</p>
<p>Point being &#8211; don&#8217;t argue for CEV or shuttle &#8211; argue for something better.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles in Houston</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34416</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charles in Houston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fellow Readers -

Ferris correctly points out:

Charles said: &quot;We have the option of either spending additional money on Orion/Constellation or Shuttle.&quot;

Ferris said: &quot;Charles, those most certianly are not our only options. The options available to us through Commercial space should not be so quickly cast aside - &quot;

And I do agree with Ferris - the commercial option (flying some derivative of Delta or Atlas or a newish vehicle) would be much better than either of the two options that I discussed. However I did not want to extend an already long comment; I was attempting to analyze the shallow conclusion of the Senator from Florida.

Charles]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fellow Readers &#8211;</p>
<p>Ferris correctly points out:</p>
<p>Charles said: &#8220;We have the option of either spending additional money on Orion/Constellation or Shuttle.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ferris said: &#8220;Charles, those most certianly are not our only options. The options available to us through Commercial space should not be so quickly cast aside &#8211; &#8221;</p>
<p>And I do agree with Ferris &#8211; the commercial option (flying some derivative of Delta or Atlas or a newish vehicle) would be much better than either of the two options that I discussed. However I did not want to extend an already long comment; I was attempting to analyze the shallow conclusion of the Senator from Florida.</p>
<p>Charles</p>
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		<title>By: Ferris Valyn</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34412</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ferris Valyn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/01/16/martinez-shorten-the-gap-but-retire-the-shuttle/#comment-34412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt; We have the option of either spending additional money on Orion/Constellation or Shuttle. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Charles, those most certianly are not our only options.  The options available to us through Commerical space should not be so quickly cast aside - indeed, I&#039;d rather Nasa take a budget cut, lose the shuttle, and end CEV/Ares I if the remaining money was redirected at things like Dragon, Dreamchaser, Arctus, and many of the other commerical spacecrafts being pursued.  We are much likelier to see them fly, more often and at a reduced price, than shuttle or CEV.  

I stand by that statement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> We have the option of either spending additional money on Orion/Constellation or Shuttle. </p></blockquote>
<p>Charles, those most certianly are not our only options.  The options available to us through Commerical space should not be so quickly cast aside &#8211; indeed, I&#8217;d rather Nasa take a budget cut, lose the shuttle, and end CEV/Ares I if the remaining money was redirected at things like Dragon, Dreamchaser, Arctus, and many of the other commerical spacecrafts being pursued.  We are much likelier to see them fly, more often and at a reduced price, than shuttle or CEV.  </p>
<p>I stand by that statement.</p>
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