And Kudos for standing up to anonymousspace, his bullying have driven enough good people from this forum.

He knows full well you can’t prove a negative. He’s like those UFO nuts that keep challenging NASA scientists to prove UFO’s aren’t real.

Pure speculation on your part.

Where’s the evidence that Ellman wrote this document?

“GREAT job in providing some insight behind the Obama space policy.”

I’m not trying to be mean, but what insight is that?

That Ellman knew enough about the policies of her candidate that she was able to speak to them when asked?

Whoop-dee-doo.

“This is the kind of research that should have been done”

What research did Anon do?

He/she read Ellman’s bio (only after I started pointing them out to him/her) and then made up stories about connections between Ellman and the document for which their is no evidence.

That may be storytelling or conspiracy mongering, but it ain’t research.

“He knows full well you can’t prove a negative.

How are you able to provide a link to prove a paper is not posted on a website?”

That’s my point.

The only piece of evidence that Anon keeps waving is something that he/she can’t prove.

Great way to support one’s side in a debate.

You know, if Obama’s space position paper was written by Obama’s Educational Policy specialist, Lisa Ellman, it would explain a lot about it.

For example the uninformed statements on the Ares I using proven technology.

The lack of any statements on COTS or other New Space issues.

The vague statement about Obama’s commitment to a bold array of robotic missions without specifying which ones.

The lack of knowledge on the limitations of space surveillance in accessing threats involving nuclear systems.

The paragraph on keeping weapons out of space.

And, in stark contrast to the vague nature of the rest of the document, the long and very detailed discussion of NASA’s being used to drive science and math education.

In short, just what you would expect from someone very knowledgeable about educational policy while lacking any knowledge of science/technology policy, let alone space.

Also, if this was written by the educational policy advisor without involvement of the technology/science policy advisors it could explain why it seems to have become an orphan document not posted on the Obama website.

It also implies that there will be major changes in Obama’s space policy if he’s nominated.

Anon – GREAT job in providing some insight behind the Obama space policy. This is the kind of research that should have been done when it was released.

And ignore anonymouspace.

“NOT posted on the Obama website?”

You keep claiming that but you have yet to prove it.

He knows full well you can’t prove a negative.

How are you able to provide a link to prove a paper is not posted on a website?

Sure beats your F-.

“Very interesting that the individual who specializes in Education Policy, and likely wrote the education plan, would release this document ”

We have no evidence that Ellman released (or prepared) the document. We only know that she provided verbal remarks that are consistent with that document.

Can you please stop with these idiotic Obama conspiracy theories long enough to get at least one fact right?

“and not the policy associate leading Obama’s technology team, Julius Genachowski as you would expect for a policy on space exploration.”

And your proof that Genachowski (or someone else) wasn’t the author or point of release for this document is?

Did you check with him?

“And again, why is this position paper, alone of all the position papers issued,”

How do you know that there are not other Obama position papers that do not appear on the Obama website?

Have you been keeping a comprehensive list of all Obama position papers?

“And finally its interesting to note that even after this policy paper was released Obama himself two weeks later (Jan. 24) was still talking about taking money from NASA for education.”

No one has denied that. But contrary to your earlier, erroneous statements, the money is not coming from Shuttle (duh) or Ares I/Orion. It’s coming from the deferment the lunar hardware (Ares V/EDS/LSAM).

Ugh… buy a clue.

“NOT posted on the Obama website?”

You keep claiming that but you have yet to prove it.

Geez, Louise…

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/FerrisValyn/CVp2

which refers readers not to a posting of the policy on the Obama website, but to the posting on the Spaceref.com website.

As for Lisa Ellman being Senior Policy Associate, she is (Good start anonymousspace, I will give you a “C” on your research skills), but her specialization is in Education, NOT space, which you fail to note.

http://www.career.org/iMISPublic/AM/TemplateRedirect.cfm?template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&Section=Newsletters1&ContentID=16052

The Legislative Advisory Conference call this week featured remarks from two members of Sen. Barak Obama’s presidential campaign staff, Deputy Policy Director Danielle Gray and Senior Associate specializing in education Lisa Ellman.

Very interesting that the individual who specializes in Education Policy, and likely wrote the education plan, would release this document and not the policy associate leading Obama’s technology team, Julius Genachowski as you would expect for a policy on space exploration.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:vntIfptgwwwJ:my.barackobama.com/page/community/person/CJ3L+%22Julius+Genachowski%22+site:Barackobama.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

So why is Obama’s educational policy advisor taking the lead on releasing space policy papers and not his advisor on technology policy?

is it because NASA in the realm of education and not technology in the eyes of Obama? (It would of course explain why nearly half of the paper talks about strengthening science and math education….)

And again, why is this position paper, alone of all the position papers issued, NOT posted on the Obama website?

And finally its interesting to note that even after this policy paper was released Obama himself two weeks later (Jan. 24) was still talking about taking money from NASA for education.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18384932

“And we’ve identified a range of ways that we can save money in terms of how we purchase goods by the federal government. There are some programs related to NASA, for example, that we would not eliminate — but defer — so that the spending is spread out over a longer period of time.”

Interesting, eh?

But I will bow out as everyone prefers to talk about how beautiful the Emperor’s clothes are….

Mr. Cowing never objected to your anonymous posting on Mr. Foust’s website.

Mr. Cowing is choosing not to respond to your anonymous request to him, which is his choice, not Mr. Foust’s.

Sheesh…

I have. Three times.

Here’s three more, different citations from different sources.

At a different Popular Mechanics website, eight points from “Barack Obama’s Plan for American Leadership in Space” were “provided to PM [Popular Mechanics] by Barack Obama’s campaign”:

popularmechanics.com/science/research/4237347.html?page=2

The Mars Society excerpted sections of “Barack Obama’s Plan for American Leadership in Space”, citing their source as “Barack Obama 2008″:

marssociety.org/portal%2522/mars-news-from-the-san-diego-chapter/TMSSD_News_33480

And a paragraph from “Barack Obama’s Plan for American Leadership in Space” appears on the Physics Today website:

blogs.physicstoday.org/politics08/2008/01/

These sources are in addition to the three aforementioned sources.

A PDF of “Barack Obama’s Plan for American Leadership in Space” is found on the Popular Mechanics website:

media.popularmechanics.com/documents/obama-space-policy.pdf

Another copy of “Barack Obama’s Plan for American Leadership in Space” is found on the SpaceRef site:

spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=26647

And there are direct quotes from Obama’s senior policy associate, Lisa Ellman, on this very website supporting those documents. Here’s the full excerpt:

“In the message, Lisa Ellman, Obama’s policy director in New Hampshire, said Obama ‘will work to strengthen American leadership in space’ and that he ‘believes that the United States needs a strong space program to help it maintain its superiority not only in space, but here on earth in the realms of education, technology, and national security.’

“Most importantly, Ellman clarifies what Obama meant by delaying Constellation by five years:

“‘Obama believes we should continue developing the next generation of space vehicles, and complete the international space station. While Obama would delay plans to return to moon and push on to mars, Obama would continue unmanned missions, and use NASA to monitor the forces and effects of climate change, support scientific research, and maintain surveillance to strengthen national security. Obama also believes we need to keep weapons out of space.'”

See spacepolitics.com/2008/01/02/obama-clarifies-his-space-policy/

That’s five citations for the same Obama campaign document spread across four reliable sources, all backed by direct quotes from an Obama policy official. If that’s not the “actual position” of the Obama campaign, I don’t know what is.

“Nope. The burden is on YOU”

No it’s not.

You’re the one in denial about five citations for the same Obama campaign document spread across four reliable sources.

Not me.

You’re the one in denial about direct quotes from a senior Obama policy associate.

Not me.

If you want to deny reality, it’s your job to produce the evidence proving that reality is wrong.

Not me.

The burden for proving your delusions is on YOU.

Ugh…

“Why does it appear in NONE of the official positions UNLIKE the McCain and Clinton Space Policy”

There is no “McCain and Clinton Space Policy”.

You do at least understand that McCain and Clinton are not running on the same ticket, right?

Or for the same party, right?

You are an American citizen and have at least a grade school understanding of how our political parties work and how our President is elected, right?

Sheesh…

“which is easily found on their campaign sites?”

The Clinton space policy statement does _not_ appear in the official “ISSUES” section of the Clinton campaign website:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

So why aren’t you whining about that, too?

Why are you holding the Obama campaign to a different standard than the Clinton campaign?

What’s with the double standards?

Bleah…

“And the third hand email your referenced on this website only originated from a New Hampshire STATE campaign official, NOT someone with the national campaign. In short a state level volunteer, not a someone in real authority.”

Your repeated inability to conduct even basic research is laughable.

Lisa Ellman is a senior policy associate on the payroll of the Obama campaign. Ellman’s bio, pix, and interview are here:

harrisschool.uchicago.edu/alumni/profiles/ellman.asp

Ellman went to the U. of Chicago and still lives there (not New Hampshire). Her address and campaign contributions can be found in the list here:

fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Obama+for+America

Ellman worked the Obama campaign in states other than New Hampshite, like North Carolina:

godanriver.com/gdr/news/local/rockingham_news/article/democrats_gather_for_convention_in_wentworth/2993/

For the umpteenth time, learn how to work a web search for gawd sakes.

Lordy…

“So again – Do YOUR Research on YOUR Sources.”

I did.

Where are YOUR references?

Oh right, you have none.

What are YOUR sources?

Oh right, you have none.

Where is YOUR research?

Oh right, it’s a bunch of failed web searches.

“Or don’t call them facts.”

It’s a fact that the Obama campaign has released a document and excerpts of a document titled “Barack Obam’s Plan for American Leadership in Space” to multiple press, science, and popular space websites.

It’s a fact that a paid senior policy associate from the Obama campaign has provided direct quotes consistent with the content of that document.

Where are YOUR facts?

Oh right, you have none.

“one NOT supported by the campaign website.”

Prove it.

Prove that the document is NOT supported on the campaign website.

Oy vey…

It is Jeff’s choice to allow people to contribute to this website without posting their names.

And I am not questioning your story. I just find it curious that Obama’s space plan in not on his website, not even under technology issues.

Is it because space is Not that important to him to waste the bandwidth?

Or that this was just a trial ballon?

or just something whipped up for the NH election to disteact the blogsphere critics on Obama raiding NASA for education?

So perhaps your source could clarify why its not on their website with the rest of Obama plans. It just might make an interesting story for your website.

My source was extraordinarily legitimate. I think you will find many things that are not online at campaign websites that are authentic.

I love it when people who are afraid to use their own name post things like this. The document I recieved was on Obama letterhead in a PDF file. I posted the text on SpaceRef because that is what people want to read on their browsers. It was created by the campaign. I even spoke with the author. And no I am not going to take the time to post it just so some troll can get his/her jollies.

So why isn’t it on the Obama website like ALL the other Obama position papers? You might ask your contact that question. Perhaps they could provide an independent link to you share.