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	<title>Comments on: The so-so space debate: initial impressions</title>
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		<title>By: Jeff Foust</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-93866</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Foust]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 02:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-93866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[smith,

As you may have already discovered after perusing the archives here, we had a post summarizing the debate up just a few hours after it took place:

http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/08/15/initial-thoughts-from-the-mars-society-debate/

Thanks for visiting and reading!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>smith,</p>
<p>As you may have already discovered after perusing the archives here, we had a post summarizing the debate up just a few hours after it took place:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/08/15/initial-thoughts-from-the-mars-society-debate/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/08/15/initial-thoughts-from-the-mars-society-debate/</a></p>
<p>Thanks for visiting and reading!</p>
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		<title>By: smith</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-93853</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-93853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now that the herd has tghinned Obama and McCain reps have done another full on debate.  I think it actually was a LOT more full-on this time... since Obama flopped *big time* in Titusville a few weeks back.

The Debate was at the August Mars Society Convention in Boulder.

YouTube has an edit of the opening remarks at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf2yMRKixXk&quot;&gt;

And the Mars Society has the 100% full debate at:
http://www.marssociety.org/media/video/flash/debate.html

I dunno, you tell me... at least this one got good &amp; nasty at times :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that the herd has tghinned Obama and McCain reps have done another full on debate.  I think it actually was a LOT more full-on this time&#8230; since Obama flopped *big time* in Titusville a few weeks back.</p>
<p>The Debate was at the August Mars Society Convention in Boulder.</p>
<p>YouTube has an edit of the opening remarks at:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf2yMRKixXk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf2yMRKixXk</a>&#8220;&gt;</p>
<p>And the Mars Society has the 100% full debate at:<br />
<a href="http://www.marssociety.org/media/video/flash/debate.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.marssociety.org/media/video/flash/debate.html</a></p>
<p>I dunno, you tell me&#8230; at least this one got good &amp; nasty at times <img src="http://www.spacepolitics.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: Space Politics &#187; Another space policy debate</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-70856</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Space Politics &#187; Another space policy debate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-70856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the event is going to be a debate on the space policies of the presidential candidates, similar to the one held during the ISDC in Washington in late May. Representing the Obama campaign will be Lori Garver, who represented the Hillary Clinton campaign [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] the event is going to be a debate on the space policies of the presidential candidates, similar to the one held during the ISDC in Washington in late May. Representing the Obama campaign will be Lori Garver, who represented the Hillary Clinton campaign [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Teriegreaftrab</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-65055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Teriegreaftrab]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-65055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tahnks for posting]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tahnks for posting</p>
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		<title>By: anonymouspace</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51866</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymouspace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Obama is simply going to try to burn the ships (in this case the manned space program) just like the Chinese Emperor did centuries ago in the great turn inward... Sad to see that the man who so eagerly accepts comparisons between himself and John F. Kennedy would also be the man who so cooly and quickly puts to death the manned space program.&quot;

This is very overblown and highly inaccurate rhetoric that bears no resemblance whatsoever to what the Obama representative actually said at the ISDC panel:

â€œSteve Robinson, an Obama staffer who works primarily on education issues, said that space policy was part of the campaignâ€™s broader science policy.â€

â€œHe also said Obama would create a â€™supportive environment for scientific research and space explorationâ€™ in the public and private sectors, â€˜including the new generation of entrepreneurs who are interested in space exploration.â€™â€

â€œâ€˜My boss, Senator Obama, has come out and said that, overall, science funding, nationally, needs to double, and that includes an increase in NASA funding,â€™ he said.â€

â€œRobinson added that a National Research Council study concluded that NASA was being tasked with more work that it could afford to do with its current budget. â€˜The rallying cry, I think, for NASA now is that we will go as we can afford to pay. Thatâ€™s not exactly an inspirational message, and thatâ€™s something I think my boss would like to look at and decide how to do this.â€™â€

See (add http://www): 

thespacereview.com/article/1142/1 

Nothing that the Obama representative said indicates that he is trying to &quot;burn the ships&quot; or put &quot;to death the manned space program&quot;.  Please, let&#039;s read and absorb what the campaigns are actually saying before throwing invective around based on what we think or want the campaigns to be saying.

FWIW...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Obama is simply going to try to burn the ships (in this case the manned space program) just like the Chinese Emperor did centuries ago in the great turn inward&#8230; Sad to see that the man who so eagerly accepts comparisons between himself and John F. Kennedy would also be the man who so cooly and quickly puts to death the manned space program.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is very overblown and highly inaccurate rhetoric that bears no resemblance whatsoever to what the Obama representative actually said at the ISDC panel:</p>
<p>â€œSteve Robinson, an Obama staffer who works primarily on education issues, said that space policy was part of the campaignâ€™s broader science policy.â€</p>
<p>â€œHe also said Obama would create a â€™supportive environment for scientific research and space explorationâ€™ in the public and private sectors, â€˜including the new generation of entrepreneurs who are interested in space exploration.â€™â€</p>
<p>â€œâ€˜My boss, Senator Obama, has come out and said that, overall, science funding, nationally, needs to double, and that includes an increase in NASA funding,â€™ he said.â€</p>
<p>â€œRobinson added that a National Research Council study concluded that NASA was being tasked with more work that it could afford to do with its current budget. â€˜The rallying cry, I think, for NASA now is that we will go as we can afford to pay. Thatâ€™s not exactly an inspirational message, and thatâ€™s something I think my boss would like to look at and decide how to do this.â€™â€</p>
<p>See (add <a href="http://www" rel="nofollow">http://www</a>): </p>
<p>thespacereview.com/article/1142/1 </p>
<p>Nothing that the Obama representative said indicates that he is trying to &#8220;burn the ships&#8221; or put &#8220;to death the manned space program&#8221;.  Please, let&#8217;s read and absorb what the campaigns are actually saying before throwing invective around based on what we think or want the campaigns to be saying.</p>
<p>FWIW&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ferris Valyn</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ferris Valyn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rand, I don&#039;t believe I claimed that anyone&#039;s election was heavily influence by space policy.  Bob Mahoney came pretty close to hitting the mark.  You and I, and the rest of the space activist community, I would argue are trying to convince both the policy makers, to have good policy, and the public, to better understand its relation to space. After all, up until fairly recently, the idea of computer security was not seen as a large-scale issue, and today, net-neutrality is a huge issue.  

And I would argue that those of us out in blogger land are just as much engaging the non-space public, as we are the space policy makers, if not more so.  And to the non-space public, arguing VSE vs ESAS is rather pointless, as is EELV vs Direct vs Ares]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rand, I don&#8217;t believe I claimed that anyone&#8217;s election was heavily influence by space policy.  Bob Mahoney came pretty close to hitting the mark.  You and I, and the rest of the space activist community, I would argue are trying to convince both the policy makers, to have good policy, and the public, to better understand its relation to space. After all, up until fairly recently, the idea of computer security was not seen as a large-scale issue, and today, net-neutrality is a huge issue.  </p>
<p>And I would argue that those of us out in blogger land are just as much engaging the non-space public, as we are the space policy makers, if not more so.  And to the non-space public, arguing VSE vs ESAS is rather pointless, as is EELV vs Direct vs Ares</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Mahoney</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51512</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Mahoney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51512</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apologies to Lori for messing up her name. I haven&#039;t been feeling too well lately and have mixed up a few names in recent e-comms. Sorry.

I concur with Rand regarding space &amp; elections and who dictates the policy in our current (as in, dating from the early 1960s through today) &quot;system.&quot; McCurdy&#039;s &quot;The Space Station Decision&quot; does a good job of highlighting how convoluted this process can be. 

But Ferris&#039;s observation about needing to engage the public has certain merit. If (and, yes, it&#039;s a big, wishful IF) we could make space a larger element of the public&#039;s consciousness (something which NASA PAO has done such a dismal job at, almost seeming to be trying to do the opposite), perhaps a more widespread interest in space will grow sufficiently strong that the public can once again play a substantial role in shaping (or at least pushing) the policy in a positive way. 

Might take a decade or more, but with today&#039;s communications technology, maybe not. Please see (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/807/1) for some seed ideas on how. I don&#039;t see a downside to trying this in parallel with working near-term with the current congress/executive/policy-wonks &quot;system&quot; that&#039;s currently in place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies to Lori for messing up her name. I haven&#8217;t been feeling too well lately and have mixed up a few names in recent e-comms. Sorry.</p>
<p>I concur with Rand regarding space &amp; elections and who dictates the policy in our current (as in, dating from the early 1960s through today) &#8220;system.&#8221; McCurdy&#8217;s &#8220;The Space Station Decision&#8221; does a good job of highlighting how convoluted this process can be. </p>
<p>But Ferris&#8217;s observation about needing to engage the public has certain merit. If (and, yes, it&#8217;s a big, wishful IF) we could make space a larger element of the public&#8217;s consciousness (something which NASA PAO has done such a dismal job at, almost seeming to be trying to do the opposite), perhaps a more widespread interest in space will grow sufficiently strong that the public can once again play a substantial role in shaping (or at least pushing) the policy in a positive way. </p>
<p>Might take a decade or more, but with today&#8217;s communications technology, maybe not. Please see (<a href="http://www.thespacereview.com/article/807/1" rel="nofollow">http://www.thespacereview.com/article/807/1</a>) for some seed ideas on how. I don&#8217;t see a downside to trying this in parallel with working near-term with the current congress/executive/policy-wonks &#8220;system&#8221; that&#8217;s currently in place.</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51501</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, my opinion has a lot of historical, empirical data to back it up.  Yours is simply wishful thinking.  No one has ever won an election based on space policy.  The only person I know of whose election was even influenced by emphasizing it was Jack Schmitt.  He lost.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, my opinion has a lot of historical, empirical data to back it up.  Yours is simply wishful thinking.  No one has ever won an election based on space policy.  The only person I know of whose election was even influenced by emphasizing it was Jack Schmitt.  He lost.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferris Valyn</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51490</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ferris Valyn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rand,
I guess we&#039;ll have to chalk this one up as one we don&#039;t agree on, then.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rand,<br />
I guess we&#8217;ll have to chalk this one up as one we don&#8217;t agree on, then.</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/05/31/the-so-so-space-debate-initial-impressions/#comment-51462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;If we canâ€™t get the average person more engaged on space above and beyond â€œspace goodâ€, weâ€™ll never get the policy makers.&lt;/em&gt;

Then it&#039;s not going to happen.

But I disagree with your premise.   Space policy has never been, and (unless it somehow becomes much more prominent) never will be driven by &quot;the average person.&quot;  It&#039;s always decided within the space policy community, pretty much divorced from the voters.  The only time that it&#039;s ever been even potentially a voting issue was just after Sputnik.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>If we canâ€™t get the average person more engaged on space above and beyond â€œspace goodâ€, weâ€™ll never get the policy makers.</em></p>
<p>Then it&#8217;s not going to happen.</p>
<p>But I disagree with your premise.   Space policy has never been, and (unless it somehow becomes much more prominent) never will be driven by &#8220;the average person.&#8221;  It&#8217;s always decided within the space policy community, pretty much divorced from the voters.  The only time that it&#8217;s ever been even potentially a voting issue was just after Sputnik.</p>
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