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	<title>Comments on: Is the new administration charged up about space solar power?</title>
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	<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power</link>
	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Yair Barniv</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-166356</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yair Barniv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-166356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the last sentence, John Strickland said &quot;The government should fund critical engineering studies that are needed to prove that the SSP concepts would work, and that do NOT involve transmitting any power to the ground as a public demo.&quot;

To me, transmitting power to the ground constitutes 99.9% of the overall scheme; we already know that a solar panel exposed to the sun, whether on earth or in space, WILL produce electrical power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the last sentence, John Strickland said &#8220;The government should fund critical engineering studies that are needed to prove that the SSP concepts would work, and that do NOT involve transmitting any power to the ground as a public demo.&#8221;</p>
<p>To me, transmitting power to the ground constitutes 99.9% of the overall scheme; we already know that a solar panel exposed to the sun, whether on earth or in space, WILL produce electrical power.</p>
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		<title>By: John Strickland</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-154667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Strickland]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-154667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To &quot;Charles in Houston&quot;:  Please do not put space solar in the same category as ground solar.  Ground solar is not only intermittent and very diffuse but requires non-existent cheap and efficient storage to make it usable for base load demand.  (This is not knocking it, just the truth.) Space Solar Power is there &quot;24/7&quot; and needs no storage.  It is also 30% stronger than on the ground. In the past, green groups have been opposed to it just because it is a large, powerful and centralized energy source.   We would and should be pitching SSP to whichever administration had taken power.   I also know of no engineering &quot;showstoppers&quot;. 

The big current showstopper is still economics.  There are a very few who say the business case for SSP closes (works) now.  This is not true, since it is based on paper rockets that do not exist. The government has not helped very much with this, with its failed X-33 and National Aerospace Plane programs.  Only private industry can realistically do it, since the government has no strong motive to reduce operating costs.  

What the government should NOT do is to fund a &quot;demonstrator&quot; that would try to transmit actual power.  The media would then jump in and point out that each watt-hour cost millions of dollars, showing that SSP is a boondoggle.  The government should fund critical engineering studies that are needed to prove that the SSP concepts would work, and that do NOT involve transmitting any power to the ground as a public demo.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To &#8220;Charles in Houston&#8221;:  Please do not put space solar in the same category as ground solar.  Ground solar is not only intermittent and very diffuse but requires non-existent cheap and efficient storage to make it usable for base load demand.  (This is not knocking it, just the truth.) Space Solar Power is there &#8220;24/7&#8243; and needs no storage.  It is also 30% stronger than on the ground. In the past, green groups have been opposed to it just because it is a large, powerful and centralized energy source.   We would and should be pitching SSP to whichever administration had taken power.   I also know of no engineering &#8220;showstoppers&#8221;. </p>
<p>The big current showstopper is still economics.  There are a very few who say the business case for SSP closes (works) now.  This is not true, since it is based on paper rockets that do not exist. The government has not helped very much with this, with its failed X-33 and National Aerospace Plane programs.  Only private industry can realistically do it, since the government has no strong motive to reduce operating costs.  </p>
<p>What the government should NOT do is to fund a &#8220;demonstrator&#8221; that would try to transmit actual power.  The media would then jump in and point out that each watt-hour cost millions of dollars, showing that SSP is a boondoggle.  The government should fund critical engineering studies that are needed to prove that the SSP concepts would work, and that do NOT involve transmitting any power to the ground as a public demo.</p>
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		<title>By: Vladislaw</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-153195</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vladislaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-153195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gary, could a demonstrator program be large enough to power the ISS?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary, could a demonstrator program be large enough to power the ISS?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gary Barnhard</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-152642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Barnhard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 06:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-152642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Curiously enough the &quot;case&quot; Dr. Worden was riling against was not the one I was making.  I asserted that SBSP was not a panacea, and that while the business did not close in a traditional sense there was a case to be made for further work.  More specifically, there were space-to-space and space-to-lunar applications, and the potential for space-to-Earth applications that held the promise of sufficient value to warrant the investment in the technology development and demonstration necessary to bring them forward. 

SBSP has great potential but is a very significant systems engineering challenge regardless of the venue of application. 

Enough said for now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curiously enough the &#8220;case&#8221; Dr. Worden was riling against was not the one I was making.  I asserted that SBSP was not a panacea, and that while the business did not close in a traditional sense there was a case to be made for further work.  More specifically, there were space-to-space and space-to-lunar applications, and the potential for space-to-Earth applications that held the promise of sufficient value to warrant the investment in the technology development and demonstration necessary to bring them forward. </p>
<p>SBSP has great potential but is a very significant systems engineering challenge regardless of the venue of application. </p>
<p>Enough said for now.</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-152568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-152568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the business case closed, there would be no need for government money.  What&#039;s the problem here?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the business case closed, there would be no need for government money.  What&#8217;s the problem here?</p>
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		<title>By: SpaceMan</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-152566</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SpaceMan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 02:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-152566</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;the business case does NOT close at this time&lt;/i&gt;

I would suggest that it &lt;strong&gt;DEPENDS&lt;/strong&gt; on which business case you are trying to close as to the case closing or not. Different cases for different folks.

Many miles to go yet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the business case does NOT close at this time</i></p>
<p>I would suggest that it <strong>DEPENDS</strong> on which business case you are trying to close as to the case closing or not. Different cases for different folks.</p>
<p>Many miles to go yet.</p>
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		<title>By: SBSP Supporter</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-152563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SBSP Supporter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 02:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-152563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[KEVIN PARKIN: &lt;i&gt;Worden comprehensively debunked it as a credible policy option at this time.&lt;/i&gt;

Kevin,

Gen. Worden won the debate for two reasons.

1) Worden was the MUCH better debater.  Worden was more knowledgeable, more skilled and more prepared for this debate than Barnhard. Mr. Barnhard was in way over his head, and did not seem to know it.  It was if he was a kid playing in a man&#039;s game and against somebody at the top of his game.

To illustrate the mismatch, note that in Barnhard&#039;s post above he wrote an equation in an attempt to persuade us.  This is not effective communication.  Kevin, you have a PhD from Caltech, but I doubt that you use equations to try persuade general audiences on your argument.  Nuff said on this point.

2) Dr. Worden attacked the basic arguments of those who are WAY-overselling SBSP ... specifically, those who say &quot;the business case closes&quot;.  In other words, Worden picked an easy debate to win.

Why was the debate issue so tilted to Worden?

Because the business case does NOT close at this time.  The NSSO study report clearly reports it does not close. 

More relevantly ....

Even though the NSSO study report acknowledges that the business case does not close, it still recommends that we invest in SBSP.  

We can support long-term research and development program in SBSP.  It is the job of the federal government to pursue societal goods like SBSP.

Yes, Dr. Worden was absolutely right to take away the kool-aid of the SBSP fanatics.  

But SBSP is still a credible policy option.  There are credible and reasonable approaches to SBSP.

- SBSP Supporter]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KEVIN PARKIN: <i>Worden comprehensively debunked it as a credible policy option at this time.</i></p>
<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>Gen. Worden won the debate for two reasons.</p>
<p>1) Worden was the MUCH better debater.  Worden was more knowledgeable, more skilled and more prepared for this debate than Barnhard. Mr. Barnhard was in way over his head, and did not seem to know it.  It was if he was a kid playing in a man&#8217;s game and against somebody at the top of his game.</p>
<p>To illustrate the mismatch, note that in Barnhard&#8217;s post above he wrote an equation in an attempt to persuade us.  This is not effective communication.  Kevin, you have a PhD from Caltech, but I doubt that you use equations to try persuade general audiences on your argument.  Nuff said on this point.</p>
<p>2) Dr. Worden attacked the basic arguments of those who are WAY-overselling SBSP &#8230; specifically, those who say &#8220;the business case closes&#8221;.  In other words, Worden picked an easy debate to win.</p>
<p>Why was the debate issue so tilted to Worden?</p>
<p>Because the business case does NOT close at this time.  The NSSO study report clearly reports it does not close. </p>
<p>More relevantly &#8230;.</p>
<p>Even though the NSSO study report acknowledges that the business case does not close, it still recommends that we invest in SBSP.  </p>
<p>We can support long-term research and development program in SBSP.  It is the job of the federal government to pursue societal goods like SBSP.</p>
<p>Yes, Dr. Worden was absolutely right to take away the kool-aid of the SBSP fanatics.  </p>
<p>But SBSP is still a credible policy option.  There are credible and reasonable approaches to SBSP.</p>
<p>&#8211; SBSP Supporter</p>
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		<title>By: chance</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-152560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 01:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-152560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;&lt;i&gt;the Administration is planning to repeal several laws of physics (you know, that stuff that is as old as dirt!) to make space solar power practical.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

What law of physics would need to be broken?  Everything I&#039;ve ever read says that SBSP may be impractical for engineering and/or cost reasons, but I&#039;ve never heard any fundamental reasons why it couldn&#039;t work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>the Administration is planning to repeal several laws of physics (you know, that stuff that is as old as dirt!) to make space solar power practical.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>What law of physics would need to be broken?  Everything I&#8217;ve ever read says that SBSP may be impractical for engineering and/or cost reasons, but I&#8217;ve never heard any fundamental reasons why it couldn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Barnhard</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-152539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Barnhard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-152539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The debate on Space Based Solar Power held this week at Moffett Field between Pete Worden and myself did not comprehensively debunk anything, nor I must add, did it conclusively prove the contrary across all areas of application.  The debate was intended to provide an entry point into the broader system engineering discussion that is absolutely essential for discerning the potential value of such endeavors. 
In this case &quot;Value&quot; is defined as as &quot;a relative assessment of potential to produce a positive future situation&quot;.

    Value = {Summation of Returns} -{Summation of Risks}

Both Dr. Worden and I have agreed to review the material brought forward in our presentations in detail.  After that is accomplished,  the material from the debate will be annotated as appropriate with the supporting analysis and corresponding references and will be made available in one or more forums.  

The debate was part of the Advanced Technology Working Group (ATWG) fall workshop program held at Moffett Field this week.  http://www.atwg.org/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The debate on Space Based Solar Power held this week at Moffett Field between Pete Worden and myself did not comprehensively debunk anything, nor I must add, did it conclusively prove the contrary across all areas of application.  The debate was intended to provide an entry point into the broader system engineering discussion that is absolutely essential for discerning the potential value of such endeavors.<br />
In this case &#8220;Value&#8221; is defined as as &#8220;a relative assessment of potential to produce a positive future situation&#8221;.</p>
<p>    Value = {Summation of Returns} -{Summation of Risks}</p>
<p>Both Dr. Worden and I have agreed to review the material brought forward in our presentations in detail.  After that is accomplished,  the material from the debate will be annotated as appropriate with the supporting analysis and corresponding references and will be made available in one or more forums.  </p>
<p>The debate was part of the Advanced Technology Working Group (ATWG) fall workshop program held at Moffett Field this week.  <a href="http://www.atwg.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.atwg.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: SpaceMan</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2008/12/12/is-the-new-administration-charged-up-about-space-solar-power/#comment-152492</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SpaceMan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=1844#comment-152492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Worden comprehensively debunked it as a credible policy option at this time.&lt;/i&gt;

Do you know of any transcript, video etc available to the &quot;unwashed rabble&quot; out here or is it simply &quot;insiders&quot; only at this point ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Worden comprehensively debunked it as a credible policy option at this time.</i></p>
<p>Do you know of any transcript, video etc available to the &#8220;unwashed rabble&#8221; out here or is it simply &#8220;insiders&#8221; only at this point ?</p>
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