I am not going to get into a debate on Ronaldus the Great or any other politican that is not related to space (trying to be on topic) except to say this.

You are in my view free to have your own opinion (one of the joys of “us” winning)…but I will say this.

In my life so far I have been privileged to met a reasonable number of national politicians AND have worked in a few national campaigns. So far in my adult life there are three politicans who “knew who they were”…Ronald Reagan, Howard Dean and John McCain of 00…things change of course and McCain of 08 knew quite less about “who he was” then the McCain of 00 did.

The world is a safer place in my view because Ronald Reagan was “on watch” in the period from 81-88…

Robert G. Oler

Reminds me of an old Cold War joke:

American and Russian argue over political freedomes.

American: ” I can go out on the street and yell ‘Reagan is an idiot’, I’m free to do it.”

Russian: “In Russia we have all those same rights.”

American: “You can’t be serious, howe can I believe you?”

Russian: “Sure, watch me go out on the street in Moscow and yell, ‘Reagan is an idiot’. We have the same rights as you do.

One might argue that the USSR got into the Buran/Energia shuttle/launcher system to compete with our STS. The cost of their system (regardless of the technical achievement) was so high that at least in part it participated in the end of the USSR. So in the end “space” may have a lot to do with the end of the USSR…

Jim Oberg wrote @ November 23rd, 2009 at 10:21 am
With respect to a veteran cold warrior; would you not agree that ASTP; MIR-Shuttle and the ISS are not progressive steps in trust building?..

Jim can speak for himself but I would be surprised if he agreed…I dont.

ASTP had nothing to do with trust…and everything to do with showmanship…and some internal state politics. After it was over no one outside of the crew and a few folks at the various control centers said… (ok there might have been someone…maybe Charlie Precourt) “wow I trust Ivan more” or “I trust those Yankees more”) ..

and it had nothing to do with the general state of US/USSR relationships. By the time ISS came around the “Trust” was already there…other wise we would not have had the joint missions/build to start with.

Nor is the squabbling internal to ESA (and it produces no more spinoffs then NASA does and those are very few) compare to trying to work peace between say the Israelis and the Palestinian Authority. Not even in the same ballpark.

What ended the cold war was Ronaldus the Great pushing Ivan until his economy fell apart and then being a very gracious victor. Space, at least human spaceflight had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Robert G. Oler

Spinoff! Space investment advances technology and the European industrial base and hence employment, skills and the wealth of the EU! That may not happen with NASA now but its a primary purpose of ESA!

“and with all due respect exist because folks are already friends.”

LOL. If you believe that you need to take some urgent lessons in modern Geo-politics. The Commission fights with the Council. The Council fights with the Parliament and the Member States fight about everything! Current bones of contention: Lisbon Treaty and Turkey! However we now try to reach consensus and compromise rather than ultimata and partisan politics. Multiple Parties and Coalition Politics. Much better than a two party system. IMHO.

Now to turn to the more substantive issue:

“after WW2 Europe woke up and said “it will never happen again” in no small measure because the US left USFE (US forces Europe) in place.

Oh dear! Is that what stopped Britain from declaring war on Luxembourg? No. The USA left troops in place because it suited the USA to build up a McCarthyian “Red Menace” as the next threat against ‘civilization’ and thus maintain the MIC that Eisenhower warned you about. Even after the fall of USSR and the Peace Dividend and even after such partnerships as the ISS: your MIC is as big, if not bigger. And for what? To fight an neverendingly vague “war against terror”. Vague because terrorism takes many forms and is increasingly used to describe: “anyone who does not agree with us!” And neverending because where you have injustice: you have asymmetry hence “freedom fighting” tends to use asymmetric warfare. Or “Cast Lead vs Quassams.”

Which leads us to:

“Put and Israeli and a member of the PLA [Can't bring yourself to say the word "Palestinian"? Hmm. Use an acronym meaning the Palestinian Liberation Army. Hmmmm.] in space you would at best have people behaving themselves in opposite corners of the space station. It wouldnt fix things on earth.” [Robert G. Oler wot wrote @ November 22nd, 2009 at 10:40 pm]

But it might help. It would certainly be better than just having a a member of the IDF in space with the PLA left out in the cold! Personally I would have a member of the Palestinian National Authority [PNA] and Hamas. Then we really would see the sparks fly!
However, the real lesson here is: fact check before making assertions.
http://gaza-space.blogspot.com/2009/08/digital-planetarium-for-palestine.html

“In an unlikely scientific partnership that crosses political barriers, Palestinian and Israeli researchers have joined forces to organize a science project onboard the space shuttle Columbia. [Alas! Peace never gets a chance.] The science project, which includes Palestinian biology student Tariq Adwan and Israeli medical student Yuval Landau, could help determine whether the cosmos is seeded with primordial life forms.”

For all your faux news sources would suggest, there are Semites who just want to be friends. If only other people: generally non-Semites not interested in friendship, would stop building walls. And settlements!
A joint Israeli-Palestinian mission to the ISS could be a useful future tactic to indicate that the old days of asymmetric support are over.(1) After they see for themselves the small scrap of land they are currently fighting over and the immensity of the rest of their mutually Abrahamic God’s Creation, we might see some common sense. If the ISS brought that about it would deserve a great deal more than the Nobel peace Prize.
Safe! (Only – NASA fan please note – with wickets rather than bases!)

BootNote:
(1) “In 2007, the United States increased its military aid to Israel by over 25%, to an average of $3 billion per year for the following ten year period (starting at $2.550 billion for 2008, growing by $150 million each year).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_military_relations#Military_aid (use http://tinyurl.com/ylqbnnj)
Three billion per year! Now where have I heard that before…

“They really have no more pull in American politics then say the “flower power” people.”
Robert, would that be an oblique reference to “San Fran Nan?” And Obama Inhaled! They are already there Man, as President and Speaker! That’s why your GOP base are so freaked out!
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Doug Lassiter wrote @ November 22nd, 2009 at 11:44 am
Sorry I missed your post on the first pass. Spot on Sir! I concur.