And please find a former NASA manager here http://spacex.com/company.php

I am not the one making baseless affirmation. So I have no need to back up any thing.

” I don’t beleive I’ve seen you provide ANY BACKING to your arguments (i.e. ‘commercial companies’ have non-NASA orders/staff).”

You may just read this for example http://spacex.com/launch_manifest.php

I have dispelled googaw’s arguments. You are just acknowledging an opinion you share with googaw not facts.

No you did not provide any evidence save for the hearings. At best this is very tenuous and those who know just know, you don’t. You obviously are easy to make an argument based on hear-say. Frankly it is your point of view and that is all that is. You have provided absolutely no evidence to what you claim. Baseless.

Hmm. A little odd as a line of argument. But what the heck!

“In which case having exuberant fans to write their Congressmen or sing their praises on the space politics blogs comes in quite handy.”

I did not know we, the exuberant fans, had so much power.

“No, you apparently ignored the evidence save for Bowersox. ”

What evidence??? Plese provide names and/or links or something that shows how many NASA employees went to work for SpaceX as you state. Until then I am not sure who has the least common sense.

“COTS does not create a market. ”

No on its own it does not. COTS provide cash to help develop an industry. CRS is the current governement market when it comes to NASA.

” I also gave the URL specific minute of the video clip, the Senate hearing this week, where a Florida Senator urges Bolden to pressure “the commercial companies”, ”

So what??? A Florida Senator makes some showmanship! You take it as if it were the truth.

“dominance of the NASA money encourages the company to focus on NASA and ignore the rest of the market.”

Please provide proof to your argument. Especially that you were the one actually focusing on SpaceX as if the other companies were not in the same situation loke OSC, ULA, BO, Boeing etc.

“Also, NASA is extremely terrible at guessing what markets will be. So there need to be milestones about getting other customers as well as milestones about investment, instead of the traditional handwaving about hypothetical markets in order to grab NASA contracts based on a mythological “commerce.””

Sounds like rethoric or dare I say diatribe.

“I’ve provided tons of evidence for this.”

Tons of evidence??? I am not talking about OSC and neither were you. You are/were making statements about SpaceX.

“That is where SpaceX and the other NewSpace companies going unless they wake up and the NewSpace community wakes up to see what is going on and head it off.”

Pretty amazing you making this kind of prediction without any substantiation. Maybe you’re right but maybe you’re wrong. You have no evidence for today’s companies.

I reacted at you saying that SpaceX was hiring NASA workers under NASA pressure for which you have no evidence save for Bowersox

No, you apparently ignored the evidence save for Bowersox. I also gave the URL specific minute of the video clip, the Senate hearing this week, where a Florida Senator urges Bolden to pressure “the commercial companies”, obviously referring to SpaceX and OSC, to locate operations and hire in Florida, and Bolden replies that he has already do so. In fact one of them was not planning substantial hiring in Florida and Bolden “convinced” them to change their minds. (They didn’t say which one). Actually, both Florida Senators chimed in on this matter. It’s quite clear what is going on. Get your head out of the sand.

it is okay for the government to provide incentives to create a market.

COTS does not create a market. Super-COTS does. There needs to be a good proportion of other, preferably private, customers involved for a market to start to form. COTS doesn’t do anything about that, indeed the dominance of the NASA money encourages the company to focus on NASA and ignore the rest of the market. Also, NASA is extremely terrible at guessing what markets will be. So there need to be milestones about getting other customers as well as milestones about investment, instead of the traditional handwaving about hypothetical markets in order to grab NASA contracts based on a mythological “commerce.”

Finally you made this assertion without any substance “Slowly but surely, SpaceX is turning into a NASA zombie. “

I’ve provided tons of evidence for this. Try going back and rereading my posts again, you obviously must be just skimming. And you should research the history of Orbital Sciences, how they started out chasing commerce (back in the day, smallsat communications in LEO was the big hype like space tourism more recently). The hypothetical markets fell far short of the grand expectations, and the DoD and NASA contracts that investors were led to believe were just supposed to prime the pumps became their regular gig. There was also tons of similar hype by Spacehab and others back in the 1980s about huge prospective markets that ended up only as NASA contracts. That is where SpaceX and the other NewSpace companies going unless they wake up and the NewSpace community wakes up to see what is going on and head it off.