@Robert G Oler

Wow, you sure went on a wild tangent while I was away! I didn’t say that nuclear weapons were a just a symbol. I said that is what they are to Obama. He is in no way contemplating actual use..

really? This is what you wrote: “On Obama, I don’t expect anything positive. He is the worst president ever. The space program like our nuclear arsenal is a symbol of our strength which he wants to abandon.”

If Obama views the specials (like our space program) as just a symbol and yet he wants to abandon both he hardly views them as a symbol of strength unless you are claiming the equally ridiculous notion that he (Obama) is trying to destroy The Republic. If you are claiming that…that Obama is purposely trying to destroy The Republic then you are really a fox news wing nut.

As for the more recent post. I am quite pleased that Obama is not contemplating the use of the specials. There only value is in deterrence and that only works if it is known that this is what they are used for.

“His idea of non-retaliation to bioattacks as a declaratory policy is very unwise.”

that is not what Obama said. What he said is that we dont wont use the specials in the event of a bio attack by a country that was abiding by nuclear protocols. That is very wise. The specials are a unique weapon that have no other use…but to deter.

AS for space policy. Obama’s is a breath of fresh air. You might desire to replay the last fifty years. I am up for a new game.

Robert G. Oler

Wow, you sure went on a wild tangent while I was away! I didn’t say that nuclear weapons were a just a symbol. I said that is what they are to Obama. He is in no way contemplating actual use. Also, I wasn’t objecting to the level of the treaty of 1,550 warheads under the counting rules. I was address Obama’s rediculous idea of zero. Then all some county would have to do is get 50 or 100 bombs and we would be in real trouble.

As far a Sarah Palin goes she makes more sense than Obama does. His idea of non-retaliation to bioattacks as a declaratory policy is very unwise. It only reduces deterence. This is not saying that we actually should respond with nuclear weapons in that case but it would best to leave them in doubt. Sarah has that right.

Here’s an excerpt from Jeff:
* Manned planetary exploration [could] be done on the Moon, which is a worthwhile mission in its own right, and could be a source of propellant for exploration.
* The Moon vs. Mars vs. NEO’s is therefore a FALSE CHOICE; the only choice we have is what sequence we do them in.

So lets make it clear. Leaving it flexible is self-destructive. Lets anchor down the moon, lets take the world closest to us, lets finally begin the steps of space settlement with a science outpost on our beautiful celstial neighbor. Those who speak against the moon have to be against any space exploration. Those against NASA going to the moon and cutting that off to make way for commercial, are against pure science and pure exploration for ALL the people.

http://flametrench.flatoday.net/2010/04/obama-to-arrive-at-ksc-at-145-pm-april.html

Arrives at 1:45 PM, speech at 3:00 PM, leaves at 3:45 PM (all times EDT).

I regard the ISS as is as the “killer app” for HSF: Learning not to kill ourselves. Either by military or environmental means! The ISS is one heck of a limited ecosystem and nowhere near closure!

agreed…but actually for me this is another cause for “Hope” in the new policy.

The only way really that we are going to have private ventures on the Moon is when the concept of private/national rights are settled and I think that the joint cooperation on ISS and other places is going to be the key to that.

Robert G. Oler

“yes here is the key…when they found gold in the black hills…it was easy for the rest of America to come along. Not so now in spaceflight”

Although I was being facetious it still points out the cornerstone of exploration. Fundamental to exploring “new lands” is the concept of getting something for nothing, (resources) or as close to nothing as possible. Until private enterprise can get something for nothing, (lunar resources) and a legal claim to them, I do not see anything happening on the moon, other than an anartica type outpost, for the same reasons.

I couldn’t agree more, unless commercial ships are going to FOLLOW right behind the explorers there isn’t any point, not at these costs.

I have said before, we need an astronaut named Custer, to land on the hills of shakleton crater and shout “GOLD”..

yes here is the key…when they found gold in the black hills…it was easy for the rest of America to come along. Not so now in spaceflight

Robert G. Oler

Robert G. Oler wrote:

It’s so completely laughable to think that another country would be more impressed by how many times over we can destroy the world instead of the ability to feed their people, provide clean water, and set an example for a fair justice system.

Nuclear weapons mean nothing unless you use them…

yes precisely. I would make one minor change to the last sentence you wrote (and then I bring this back to space! )

Nuclear weapons as a deterrent… mean nothing unless you are willing to use them, to destroy society.

What kept the peace (MAD) with the US and USSR was that both powers no matter how angry and aggressive they got, at some point all had leaders which when they started contemplating “regime change” on the other side; looked down the hole that they would have to go into and said “it is not worth it”.

Why it was easy for Bush to exaggerate his way into Iraq is that there was no “skin” off his and our nose…it was all going to be easy, fast, and would pay for itself…so why not? Nuclear weapons in the hands of both sides are the ultimate brakes on that kind of thinking. this is why Iran getting the special doesnt scare me all that much…although I think that they are some distance from …and people like Ossama getting it scare the pants off of me…there is nothing for Ossama to lose.

In the hands of two powers with reasonable leadership, societies, (and functioning verification systems) the specials are actually quite stabilizing. There is no chance that President “Tom” IN Iran would use a special. because he knows not what the IDF will do…but what we will…and we will be standing after his firecrackers are all over.

But in the hands of OBL or his future equivalents they are not. We could have 20,000 warheads with endless delivery systems and if they could get one into NY…they win. (as 19 guys with box cutters proved).

Human spaceflight as a symbol is equally dangerous because it then demands of the effort nothing other then it exist. Indeed over the last 40 years we have finally gotten down to that. A program with nothing other to recommend it other then 1) it employs people and 2) it might someday at some cost put us back on the moon in the same way we were there half a century ago…

The right wing has completely lost its bearings. They are stuck in a cold war time frame and in cold war thought.

Robert G. Oler