Mike, I’m no fan of “the Ares family” but claiming Falcon 9 has flight history thanks to Falcon I is just as dishonest as claiming that Ares I has flight history thanks to the shuttle program.

I made no such claim, or any claim, about the Falcon 9 in this thread. My only claim on the Falcon anything was that the Falcon 1 has flown five times, which it has.

Mike

No longer is ATK fighting to protect Ares 1. Instead, it is focused on “protecting the (ATK-part of the) industrial base”.

This is basically an acknowledgment of reality — that the Ares 1 is probably going to die.

They are also focused on trying to capture some of that gamechanging technology money. They must have figured out that they need to stop attacking NASA if they have ANY chance of capturing the new money.

Cost-plus contractors are not stupid. It is against their nature to get into fights with their customer.

Boeing was the first to come over when Brewster Shaw stood up to get his “CCDV” money.

Orbital came over by repeatedly publishing releases (and are helping bring the Virginia delegation) as well as Mikulski.

Lockheed cut a deal for a CRV, and is coming over. The Colorado delegation is coming with them.

ATK can see where the herd is going, and is now changing its position.

This shifting in position will continue through Summer.

FWIW,

– Al

When they become aware of how effective Obama is at creating artificial goals with untested commercial vehicles, costing taxpayers much more than proven Ares technology, they will most likely switch sides.

“Untested”? The Atlas V has flown actual flights 21 times, the Delta IV 12 times, and the Falcon 1 five times. The Ares family of rockets? Zero.

“Costing taxpayers much more than…Ares”? According to Steve Cook, the former NASA program manager for Ares, the Ares I will cost taxpayers $35 billion — that’s “billion”, with a “b” — to develop, and Ares V will cost taxpayers an additional $40 billion — that’s also “billion”, with a “b” — on top of Ares I’s cost to develop.

Ares I would carry 55,000 lbs to LEO. The Delta IV Heavy can also carry 55,000 lbs to LEO and already exists, so its development cost to NASA is zero. How much did it cost the Air Force to develop? $500 million — that’s “million”, with an “m”.

How do existing vehicles with no development cost end up “costing taxpayers much more” than the $35 billion necessary to develop Ares I?

It’s not flight costs. According to the Augustine committee, the per-flight cost of the Ares I would be over $1 billion. The per-flight cost of the Delta IV Heavy is about $250 million.

Given these well-publicized numbers, how can you even remotely justify your claims?

Mike

Obama is at creating artificial goals

How is a 2020 deadline for lunar return not artificial?

untested commercial vehicles

Atlas V is untested? Delta IV is untested? And lets be fair, Falcon 9 is on the pad right now, while Ares I is years away from being on the pad

than proven Ares technology

Um, exactly what examples of proof do you have of Ares I tech working? Ares I-X was not Ares I

Finally, opposition to Constellation is also bipartisan. And the support for Obama’s proposal is growing

Atlas V and Delta IV are untested?

If one policy can be called ‘chest-thumping’ another may be called ‘limp-wristed’. You have a preview of ‘progressive policy’ in the fall of Greece’s kleptocracy.