<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Crafting an ideal (for some) authorization bill</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill</link>
	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:35:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
		<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
		<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=4.0.38</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328057</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 03:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt Wiser wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 9:53 pm

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Iâ€™m just pointing out that if Congress directs NASA to put Orion on an EELV and appropriates the necessary funds, they have to do it.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

There are three &quot;if&#039;s&quot; in that statement:

1.  Congress directs NASA to use an EELV - No current legislation has this, and it being in Senator Shelby&#039;s jurisdiction, you would think he would be the sponsor.

2.  Congress directs NASA to finish the Orion MPCV for crew operations, not just lifeboat - IF Delta IV Heavy is the launcher, then Orion can finally stop being changed, so it would be build-able.  As an LEO taxi, however, Orion is really expensive, both in capsule cost &amp; launcher costs (D-IVH is $300M/flight).

3.  Congress appropriates the necessary funds - So far, Constellation was seriously shortchanged by Congress and Bush, so the track record is not good.  On top of that, the Senate Bill was only allocating $4.1B vs the $5.9B Griffin last asked for.  And Griffin&#039;s budget only supported a 2017 operational date, so the $1.8B shortfall is not going to speed things up.

Conclusion:

Based on your Congressional wishlist, it looks like we&#039;re going to be using the Russians for the ISS taxi duties for a couple extra years.  Is this what you really want??

Also, your government solution is one accident away from program shutdown, just like Challenger/Columbia - it&#039;s not redundant.  Is that what you really want???

If you don&#039;t want your tax dollars going overseas, and you want redundant access to space, then you better start advocating for a commercial solution.

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Space entirely commerical?&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

It works for the DOD - industry builds the stuff, and the government pilots fly them.  Some of the same aircraft types are sold to commercial firms to fly too, and no one raises any issues with that.

What Congress is crying about is pork, not that Boeing can&#039;t be trusted to build a 60&#039;s era capsule.

&quot;&lt;i&gt;there are two Congresscritters one can expect to vote against any NASA bill&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Out of 435 Representatives, I&#039;m sure there are even more.  Maybe you didn&#039;t know this, but only a 218 need to vote &quot;Yes&quot;... ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Wiser wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 9:53 pm</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Iâ€™m just pointing out that if Congress directs NASA to put Orion on an EELV and appropriates the necessary funds, they have to do it.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>There are three &#8220;if&#8217;s&#8221; in that statement:</p>
<p>1.  Congress directs NASA to use an EELV &#8211; No current legislation has this, and it being in Senator Shelby&#8217;s jurisdiction, you would think he would be the sponsor.</p>
<p>2.  Congress directs NASA to finish the Orion MPCV for crew operations, not just lifeboat &#8211; IF Delta IV Heavy is the launcher, then Orion can finally stop being changed, so it would be build-able.  As an LEO taxi, however, Orion is really expensive, both in capsule cost &amp; launcher costs (D-IVH is $300M/flight).</p>
<p>3.  Congress appropriates the necessary funds &#8211; So far, Constellation was seriously shortchanged by Congress and Bush, so the track record is not good.  On top of that, the Senate Bill was only allocating $4.1B vs the $5.9B Griffin last asked for.  And Griffin&#8217;s budget only supported a 2017 operational date, so the $1.8B shortfall is not going to speed things up.</p>
<p>Conclusion:</p>
<p>Based on your Congressional wishlist, it looks like we&#8217;re going to be using the Russians for the ISS taxi duties for a couple extra years.  Is this what you really want??</p>
<p>Also, your government solution is one accident away from program shutdown, just like Challenger/Columbia &#8211; it&#8217;s not redundant.  Is that what you really want???</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t want your tax dollars going overseas, and you want redundant access to space, then you better start advocating for a commercial solution.</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Space entirely commerical?</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>It works for the DOD &#8211; industry builds the stuff, and the government pilots fly them.  Some of the same aircraft types are sold to commercial firms to fly too, and no one raises any issues with that.</p>
<p>What Congress is crying about is pork, not that Boeing can&#8217;t be trusted to build a 60&#8217;s era capsule.</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>there are two Congresscritters one can expect to vote against any NASA bill</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Out of 435 Representatives, I&#8217;m sure there are even more.  Maybe you didn&#8217;t know this, but only a 218 need to vote &#8220;Yes&#8221;&#8230; <img src="http://www.spacepolitics.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328054</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 02:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Wiser &quot;Space entirely commerical?&quot; &lt;- Never happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wiser &#8220;Space entirely commerical?&#8221; &lt;- Never happen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Wiser</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328045</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Wiser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 01:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ron, I&#039;m just pointing out that if Congress directs NASA to put Orion on an EELV and appropriates the necessary funds, they have to do it. No choice in the matter. Same thing with the AF and the C-17. The AF doesn&#039;t want any more, but they keep getting appropriated, and they have to buy them. Micromanagement by Congress is not a new thing, and every Federal Agency has to put up with it, some more than others. 

Space entirely commerical? Try selling that to Congress. Incidentally, there are two Congresscritters one can expect to vote against any NASA bill, regardless of how good it is: Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) (Liberal with a capital L) and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), or &quot;Doctor No&quot;. (votes against anything not in the Constitution-NASA&#039;s not mentioned, so he votes against it)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron, I&#8217;m just pointing out that if Congress directs NASA to put Orion on an EELV and appropriates the necessary funds, they have to do it. No choice in the matter. Same thing with the AF and the C-17. The AF doesn&#8217;t want any more, but they keep getting appropriated, and they have to buy them. Micromanagement by Congress is not a new thing, and every Federal Agency has to put up with it, some more than others. </p>
<p>Space entirely commerical? Try selling that to Congress. Incidentally, there are two Congresscritters one can expect to vote against any NASA bill, regardless of how good it is: Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) (Liberal with a capital L) and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), or &#8220;Doctor No&#8221;. (votes against anything not in the Constitution-NASA&#8217;s not mentioned, so he votes against it)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328042</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 01:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[someguy wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 8:33 pm &lt;- Bear in mind, 1+1=2. For Tom, more often than not of late, 1+1=11.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someguy wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 8:33 pm &lt;- Bear in mind, 1+1=2. For Tom, more often than not of late, 1+1=11.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@CoastalRon- You assertion that a successful cargo-flight has some equivalance w/a manned flight doesn&#039;t do much to enhance your mind set, either. It&#039;s quaint spin and seen as such but hardly an honest assessment. Your credibility remains worthy od comment w/t writer, albeit wrong-headed at times for the sake of argument. Tom much less so, and by his own doing. One would expect more. But we probably agree that a manitaining a manned space effort is good for the nation. Best you and Tom just stop talking and start flying. Get some one up around and down safely or up and down safely and you&#039;ll be amazed at how subsidies and loan guarantees will materialize. Unfortunately for the commercial sector, (as opposed to the government) it has really come down to: &quot;No Buck Rogers, no bucks.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@CoastalRon- You assertion that a successful cargo-flight has some equivalance w/a manned flight doesn&#8217;t do much to enhance your mind set, either. It&#8217;s quaint spin and seen as such but hardly an honest assessment. Your credibility remains worthy od comment w/t writer, albeit wrong-headed at times for the sake of argument. Tom much less so, and by his own doing. One would expect more. But we probably agree that a manitaining a manned space effort is good for the nation. Best you and Tom just stop talking and start flying. Get some one up around and down safely or up and down safely and you&#8217;ll be amazed at how subsidies and loan guarantees will materialize. Unfortunately for the commercial sector, (as opposed to the government) it has really come down to: &#8220;No Buck Rogers, no bucks.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@MajorTom: Again hese are YOUR assertions: 
a. Paul Krugman did not win a Nobel Prize. &lt;-Wrong. 
b. The moon was abandoned in &#039;72. &lt;-Wrong. (Attempting to redefine &#039;abandoned&#039; to fit your assertion post-posting doesn&#039;t work, Tom.  
c. Friendship 7 was launched May 5, 1961. &lt;-Just plain wrong ( oh yes, L/D as in launch date, Tom). 
d. The success/failure of Freedom 7 played no part in the final decision to go for the moon. &lt;-Wrong. (and it&#039;s spelled Shepard, not Shepherd, as opposed to my typo on MacNamara.)  

All you assertions corrected by this writer from a recommended variety of sources. Sources including presidential libraries, memoirs etc., with decisions referenced in the context of the times they were made. Get a library card, Tom.

But this is figuratively and literally old history. We know you&#039;re an evangelical proponent of commercial space. We know you&#039;re a SpaceX apologistâ€“ or cheerleaderâ€“ depending on your POV. Rest assured if SpaceX ever gets someone up around and down safely, the crowds will cheer with you. Until that day, the world, the space community, skeptics in Congress and in the investor class await your success.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MajorTom: Again hese are YOUR assertions:<br />
a. Paul Krugman did not win a Nobel Prize. &lt;-Wrong.<br />
b. The moon was abandoned in &#039;72. &lt;-Wrong. (Attempting to redefine &#039;abandoned&#039; to fit your assertion post-posting doesn&#039;t work, Tom.<br />
c. Friendship 7 was launched May 5, 1961. &lt;-Just plain wrong ( oh yes, L/D as in launch date, Tom).<br />
d. The success/failure of Freedom 7 played no part in the final decision to go for the moon. &lt;-Wrong. (and it&#039;s spelled Shepard, not Shepherd, as opposed to my typo on MacNamara.)  </p>
<p>All you assertions corrected by this writer from a recommended variety of sources. Sources including presidential libraries, memoirs etc., with decisions referenced in the context of the times they were made. Get a library card, Tom.</p>
<p>But this is figuratively and literally old history. We know you&#039;re an evangelical proponent of commercial space. We know you&#039;re a SpaceX apologistâ€“ or cheerleaderâ€“ depending on your POV. Rest assured if SpaceX ever gets someone up around and down safely, the crowds will cheer with you. Until that day, the world, the space community, skeptics in Congress and in the investor class await your success.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Bennett- 4/14/61. JFK mulled over whether to go or not. Asks LBJ for input as head of Space Council. 4/19 directs LBJ to make overall survey of &#039;where we stand in space&#039;- Announces to press 4/20. Johnson given &#039;carte blanche&#039; to set a goal.  Doubts LBJ harbored about going to the moon, evaporated after the successful flight of Freedom 7 (not Friendship 7, Tom) ended them. But not everyone was aboard on making an affirmative decision. The Saturday after Shepard&#039;s successful flight, Webb &amp; MacNamara exchanged reports prepared at LBJ&#039;s request. The VP told the participants to craft a persuasive rationale for going to the moon. (Two months earlier, JFK rejected a budget increase of $182.5 million for NASA.) JFK first saw the report on May 8 just after he awarded Shepard his medal and had told him to his face they were &#039;thinking about&#039; the moon commitment but no final firm decision to the commitment had been made. Two days later, May 10, JFK ratified the recommendations in the report w/his senior advisors. So glad you&#039;ve bothered to discover the MacNamara-Webb report. It indicate you do have the capacity to learn. As Kraft commented in 2004, Shepard&#039;s successful flight was the &#039;singular event&#039; that prompted JFK to challenge the technical and scientific communities to land men on the moon and bring them back safely to earth. ,- sources, MacDougall, Burrows, Thompson, Kraft, Kranz... etc.... This is all a matter of public record. Good grief.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bennett- 4/14/61. JFK mulled over whether to go or not. Asks LBJ for input as head of Space Council. 4/19 directs LBJ to make overall survey of &#8216;where we stand in space&#8217;- Announces to press 4/20. Johnson given &#8216;carte blanche&#8217; to set a goal.  Doubts LBJ harbored about going to the moon, evaporated after the successful flight of Freedom 7 (not Friendship 7, Tom) ended them. But not everyone was aboard on making an affirmative decision. The Saturday after Shepard&#8217;s successful flight, Webb &amp; MacNamara exchanged reports prepared at LBJ&#8217;s request. The VP told the participants to craft a persuasive rationale for going to the moon. (Two months earlier, JFK rejected a budget increase of $182.5 million for NASA.) JFK first saw the report on May 8 just after he awarded Shepard his medal and had told him to his face they were &#8216;thinking about&#8217; the moon commitment but no final firm decision to the commitment had been made. Two days later, May 10, JFK ratified the recommendations in the report w/his senior advisors. So glad you&#8217;ve bothered to discover the MacNamara-Webb report. It indicate you do have the capacity to learn. As Kraft commented in 2004, Shepard&#8217;s successful flight was the &#8216;singular event&#8217; that prompted JFK to challenge the technical and scientific communities to land men on the moon and bring them back safely to earth. ,- sources, MacDougall, Burrows, Thompson, Kraft, Kranz&#8230; etc&#8230;. This is all a matter of public record. Good grief.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328038</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[someguy wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 8:33 pm &lt;- They were posted repeatedly and in lengthy posts. The material is all a matter of public record. The individual challenging it has minimal crediblity..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someguy wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 8:33 pm &lt;- They were posted repeatedly and in lengthy posts. The material is all a matter of public record. The individual challenging it has minimal crediblity..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: someguy</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328037</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[someguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DCSCA wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
DCSCA wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 6:59 pm

DSCSA, if you are going to make a point, it is up to you to provide your specific source alongside your point, not say &quot;it&#039;s out there somewhere&quot; or &quot;for the uneducated, it&#039;s fairly easy, though time consuming, to look up&quot; and expect that to be adequate. 

Whether or not anyone thinks Major Tom is correct in his points, at least he is providing his sources inline with his points, including ones directly from NASA. You are not doing this. That is the problem. 

You can&#039;t expect everyone else to go searching for where you got your points. No one is going to spend that time, nor is it their responsibility. It is your responsibility to show the specific source of a point you are making. No one else&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DCSCA wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 6:54 pm<br />
DCSCA wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 6:59 pm</p>
<p>DSCSA, if you are going to make a point, it is up to you to provide your specific source alongside your point, not say &#8220;it&#8217;s out there somewhere&#8221; or &#8220;for the uneducated, it&#8217;s fairly easy, though time consuming, to look up&#8221; and expect that to be adequate. </p>
<p>Whether or not anyone thinks Major Tom is correct in his points, at least he is providing his sources inline with his points, including ones directly from NASA. You are not doing this. That is the problem. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t expect everyone else to go searching for where you got your points. No one is going to spend that time, nor is it their responsibility. It is your responsibility to show the specific source of a point you are making. No one else&#8217;s.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/10/crafting-an-ideal-for-some-authorization-bill/#comment-328034</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=3890#comment-328034</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Coastal Ron wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 7:36 pm  &lt;- Well, they were. cant help it if you missed them. Sad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coastal Ron wrote @ September 14th, 2010 at 7:36 pm  &lt;- Well, they were. cant help it if you missed them. Sad.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
