Flying NASA astronauts on commercial launch vehicles and spacecraft is still “our HSF”

“can also have a say on our nation’s HSF policy”
Having a say and knowing something about it are two different things. Launch vehicle and spacecraft architectures formulation are not taught at trade schools.

The “New Space Boys” have techs who “can also have a say on our nation’s HSF policy”

“Yours is the first I’ve heard that Constellation would not fly to the Moon until mid-2030′s …Constellation was still scheduled to land our first crews on the Moon sometime around 2020 and already have been flying crews (along with commercial companies) back and forth from the ISS.”

With all due respect, you’re completely out of the loop with regards to reality. If you follow the news about space related topics at all, you would know that even before the Augustine Commission announced it’s findings, that NASA had announced that the Constellation was slipping far out of it’s original schedule. And that’s NASA under Bush/Griffin.

The Augustine Commission foresaw that Ares I/Orion was going to slip out to at least 2017 for it’s first crew launch, but remember, without the ISS there would have been no destination for it. Now if you think that Ares V, the EDS and the Altair lander could be built & tested within 5 years (to meet the 2020 date), when Ares I/Orion were taking 11 years, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Constellation was a poorly run program and far over budget, and because of that it deserved to die. And a bipartisan majority in Congress agreed with President Obama to do just that.

No matter how many times you repeat this, it remains factually untrue, at least with regard to the administration, though certainly Congress has royally screwed things up. The 2011 budget proposal was not “nothing.” It was a proposal going forward that actually would have placed us in a realistic position to get back to the moon and on to other places much sooner and much more cost effectively than Constellation could have. Just because it was “scheduled” to do so by 2020 is meaningless when the budget for the hardware needed to do it (e.g., a lander) wasn’t going to be available until well into the twenties.

Yours is the first I’ve heard that Constellation would not fly to the Moon until mid-2030′s and I have to disagree with that. Even with the $3 billion underfunding, Constellation was still scheduled to land our first crews on the Moon sometime around 2020 and already have been flying crews (along with commercial companies) back and forth from the ISS.

What the law and a smattering of internal documents “scheduled” and what can be done are two very different things.

I worked at KSC and saw the equipment and people for Constellation while Obama and the Senate plan still exist only on paper and PowerPoint. SpaceX is still learning how to launch and fly rockets and there is no replacement now for our HSF.

If by HSF you mean retire one architecture while twiddling one’s thumbs on the other, you’ve got a point. At which you’re left with on stark fact; SpaceX has put a post-Shuttle spacecraft in orbit and returned it to Earth. NASA has not, and certainly won’t at the price point SpaceX’s entire development run has already set.

Anyway, Constellation has been cancelled as many of the “New Space Boys” wanted and now we have nothing.

You had nothing two years ago. You weren’t going to get anything until 2017 at the earliest, if even that much.

Good day gentlemen.

Yes I was a tile technician on the shuttle fleet and during my time there I also earned three more degrees including my Masters. Technicians are part of the team and can also have a say on our nation’s HSF policy Sir. I don’t know why you imply that we should not have a say.

Also, I and my former co-workers never expected nor demanded a job at KSC. We all earned our positions, and felt it was a great privilege to work on America’s HSF. No one owes us a job Sir. That is something we all have earn for ourselves based on our merit and education.

I see less debate here and more insults which is disappointing gentlemen.

“Yours is the first I’ve heard that Constellation would not fly to the Moon until mid-2030′s and I have to disagree with that. Even with the $3 billion underfunding, Constellation was still scheduled to land our first crews on the Moon sometime around 2020 and already have been flying crews (along with commercial companies) back and forth from the ISS.”

Was the EDS, lunar lander or Ares V being funded? Ares I was not scheduled to fly before 2017-18 according to the AC, if you read that.

There would have been no flights to the ISS because that was going to be decommisioned at the end of 2015 because Griffin was counting on the ISS money to fund the finishing of Ares I and to start funding the Ares V. The earliest flight for the Ares V would have been in the neighborhood of 2028 with the EDS and lunar lander having to be developed after that.

NASA does not do cheap, it is a monopoly and they never have to be innovative or cheap. Only through competition will spaceflight costs start to move downward. Congressional porksters can not work with a cheap system they need HUGE programs, the only way a program can cost billions is if the NASA myth stays in place, namely Space is super expensive and therefore only NASA can do it.

“So based on all of that, what human space flight would Constellation give us for the 20 or so years between 2015 & 2035? CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS?”

Come on Ron, I expect better from you, you KNOW what would happen, it would be the space shuttle all over again. The orion would fly to LEO, go around in circles because there would be no space station, then there would be a call from congress and NASA that the orion needs a station and the whole frakin nightmare would start over again building a new 100 billion dollar station.

I worked at KSC and saw the equipment and people for Constellation while Obama and the Senate plan still exist only on paper and PowerPoint. SpaceX is still learning how to launch and fly rockets and there is no replacement now for our HSF.

Constellation and ISS funding were separate items and Congress allocated the funding too extend the ISS mission life.

Anyway, Constellation has been cancelled as many of the “New Space Boys” wanted and now we have nothing.

“It is my humble opinion that when the last Space Shuttle flies, that will be the last time you see an American astronaut fly on an American ship to LEO for at least ten years.”

Well all we need to do to see your prediction come true is, put NASA in charge and let congress and NASA roadblock the commercial sector and it will take 10 years and overblown budgets. NASA is not about cheap. You have to understand that monopolies are never cheap they are never innovative. They do not have to be because there is absolutely no competitive pressure to make them change. The only thing that will change NASA and congress is if commercial is allowed to flourish, that means get rid of the roadblocks, prime the pump and let it happen.