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	<title>Comments on: Resetting US-China space cooperation</title>
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	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Lurking Observer</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-345637</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lurking Observer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 22:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=4314#comment-345637</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[P. Mills: 

And yet, when NASA Administrator Bolden went to China, he met w/ the head of the China Manned Engineering Space Office. Why? 

More to the point, where does CNSA fit within the Chinese political structure? Certainly, from a protocol perspective, the head of CNSA is nominally head of the Chinese civilian space program--which assumes that CNSA, and not the General Armaments Department, is the main administrative element of the Chinese space program. 

For that matter, when you take a look at Chinese reporting on things like Chang&#039;e and Shenzhou space launches, it is not CNSA that is given credit, or even the source of the senior leadership of these very high visibility programs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P. Mills: </p>
<p>And yet, when NASA Administrator Bolden went to China, he met w/ the head of the China Manned Engineering Space Office. Why? </p>
<p>More to the point, where does CNSA fit within the Chinese political structure? Certainly, from a protocol perspective, the head of CNSA is nominally head of the Chinese civilian space program&#8211;which assumes that CNSA, and not the General Armaments Department, is the main administrative element of the Chinese space program. </p>
<p>For that matter, when you take a look at Chinese reporting on things like Chang&#8217;e and Shenzhou space launches, it is not CNSA that is given credit, or even the source of the senior leadership of these very high visibility programs.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Grego</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338514</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura Grego]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=4314#comment-338514</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is some important historical context for why progress in cooperation and substantial dialogue with China on space issues is frustratingly slow.  
Gregory Kulacki&#039;s comments &lt;a href=&quot;http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/2826515287/engaging-china-on-space&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and in more detail &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear_weapons_and_global_security/space_weapons/policy_issues/moving-ahead-on-space-security.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; discuss why history matters here and gives some suggestions for how the impasse might be resolved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is some important historical context for why progress in cooperation and substantial dialogue with China on space issues is frustratingly slow.<br />
Gregory Kulacki&#8217;s comments <a href="http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/2826515287/engaging-china-on-space" rel="nofollow">here</a> and in more detail <a href="http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear_weapons_and_global_security/space_weapons/policy_issues/moving-ahead-on-space-security.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> discuss why history matters here and gives some suggestions for how the impasse might be resolved.</p>
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		<title>By: P Mills</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338439</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P Mills]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[AS for the designated counterpart to the NASA adminstrator in the Chinese Space Program all you have to do is take a look on the Web site of the China National Space Administration and he is Mr Chen Qiufa. He met last November 30 in Beijing with Mr Perminov director of the Russian Federal Space Agency. This was at the Eleventh Session of the Space Cooperation sub-Commitee of the China-Russia Premiers Regular Meeting Committe. So much for China not telling who he is! Does not take much working out!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AS for the designated counterpart to the NASA adminstrator in the Chinese Space Program all you have to do is take a look on the Web site of the China National Space Administration and he is Mr Chen Qiufa. He met last November 30 in Beijing with Mr Perminov director of the Russian Federal Space Agency. This was at the Eleventh Session of the Space Cooperation sub-Commitee of the China-Russia Premiers Regular Meeting Committe. So much for China not telling who he is! Does not take much working out!</p>
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		<title>By: Vladislaw</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338432</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vladislaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;&quot;Why else would they obsess over the cosmonautsâ€™ menu and exercise routine if the manned component of spaceflight was not perceived to be the most important?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Because it was PROPAGANDA. The Soviet Union was in a constant state of falling apart and waiting in lines to buy toilet paper because the space program was costing so much is the reason it had to be justified and heros had to be generated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Why else would they obsess over the cosmonautsâ€™ menu and exercise routine if the manned component of spaceflight was not perceived to be the most important?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Because it was PROPAGANDA. The Soviet Union was in a constant state of falling apart and waiting in lines to buy toilet paper because the space program was costing so much is the reason it had to be justified and heros had to be generated.</p>
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		<title>By: E.P. Grondine</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338388</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E.P. Grondine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=4314#comment-338388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Once again, I must remind all of you here of a few fundamental facts.

First, you tend to view ISS in China-US terms, but there are also China-Russian, China-Japan, China-Europe views that also must be considered.

Second, China has expressed no interest in manned flight to Mars.

Three, China&#039;s space leadership has expressed its interest in the Moon, and explicitly stated the reasons for their interest: 
1) CAPS 
2) 3He 
3) future property rights.

Four, cooperation with China will continue to take place in certain areas simply because of the technical needs, as it already does today.

Five, it will be several years in any case before China reaches the technical level to participate in the ISS.

Six, at that point, China will be able to operate in LEO or on the Moon independently at that point, and whether we choose to join them then in any of their ventures will be up to us, and to Europe, and to Japan, and to Russia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, I must remind all of you here of a few fundamental facts.</p>
<p>First, you tend to view ISS in China-US terms, but there are also China-Russian, China-Japan, China-Europe views that also must be considered.</p>
<p>Second, China has expressed no interest in manned flight to Mars.</p>
<p>Three, China&#8217;s space leadership has expressed its interest in the Moon, and explicitly stated the reasons for their interest:<br />
1) CAPS<br />
2) 3He<br />
3) future property rights.</p>
<p>Four, cooperation with China will continue to take place in certain areas simply because of the technical needs, as it already does today.</p>
<p>Five, it will be several years in any case before China reaches the technical level to participate in the ISS.</p>
<p>Six, at that point, China will be able to operate in LEO or on the Moon independently at that point, and whether we choose to join them then in any of their ventures will be up to us, and to Europe, and to Japan, and to Russia.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 21:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Weather is minor concern to the general public?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m talking about the issue of cooperation with the Soviets. I don&#039;t think the general American public spent much time thinking about whether we were cooperating with the Soviets on weather forecasting or geomagnetic field research. These aren&#039;t perceived as national strategic areas because a scientific breakthrough in these areas isn&#039;t likely to result in a national advantage. 

Launching humans may be a minor concern to the general public, but that would only be because spaceflight is a minor concern in general. In your quote, it mentions how human spaceflight rapidly eclipsed all other kinds of spaceflight in Soviet propaganda after Gagarin&#039;s flight. Why else would they obsess over the cosmonauts&#039; menu and exercise routine if the manned component of spaceflight was not perceived to be the most important?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Weather is minor concern to the general public?</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m talking about the issue of cooperation with the Soviets. I don&#8217;t think the general American public spent much time thinking about whether we were cooperating with the Soviets on weather forecasting or geomagnetic field research. These aren&#8217;t perceived as national strategic areas because a scientific breakthrough in these areas isn&#8217;t likely to result in a national advantage. </p>
<p>Launching humans may be a minor concern to the general public, but that would only be because spaceflight is a minor concern in general. In your quote, it mentions how human spaceflight rapidly eclipsed all other kinds of spaceflight in Soviet propaganda after Gagarin&#8217;s flight. Why else would they obsess over the cosmonauts&#8217; menu and exercise routine if the manned component of spaceflight was not perceived to be the most important?</p>
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		<title>By: Vladislaw</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338368</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vladislaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=4314#comment-338368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James wrote:

&lt;I&gt;&quot;If the U.S. and Soviets cooperated on weather, the geomagnetic field, and communications, that doesnâ€™t say much. These donâ€™t involve launching humans, and are minor issues as far as the general public is concerned.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Are you joking? Weather is minor concern to the general public? More people can name a weatherman than they could name an astronaut.

Launching humans is one of thee most minor concerns to the general public.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James wrote:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;If the U.S. and Soviets cooperated on weather, the geomagnetic field, and communications, that doesnâ€™t say much. These donâ€™t involve launching humans, and are minor issues as far as the general public is concerned.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Are you joking? Weather is minor concern to the general public? More people can name a weatherman than they could name an astronaut.</p>
<p>Launching humans is one of thee most minor concerns to the general public.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Bass</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338348</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Bass]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I saw a documentary the other day about Chinas building of the 3 gorges dam, I encourage everyone to view it if they ever see it on tv again, It provides great insight in to the china machine. I have no doubt in my mind that the Chinese leadership only has to decide where they want to go, whether it is the moon, mars or anywhere else and they will make it happen in short order. I also believe they have not embraced the direction yet, it is but a tiny piece of all the things they are doing,  building 16000 miles of high speed rail, highway projects that will exceed those in all the U.S. In several years. The dam project was amazing....artificially creating a lake the size of lake superior. they may not be able to get U.S. Government assistance or cooperation on many projects but they have proven their ability to assemble the best engineers from around the world to do what they decide to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a documentary the other day about Chinas building of the 3 gorges dam, I encourage everyone to view it if they ever see it on tv again, It provides great insight in to the china machine. I have no doubt in my mind that the Chinese leadership only has to decide where they want to go, whether it is the moon, mars or anywhere else and they will make it happen in short order. I also believe they have not embraced the direction yet, it is but a tiny piece of all the things they are doing,  building 16000 miles of high speed rail, highway projects that will exceed those in all the U.S. In several years. The dam project was amazing&#8230;.artificially creating a lake the size of lake superior. they may not be able to get U.S. Government assistance or cooperation on many projects but they have proven their ability to assemble the best engineers from around the world to do what they decide to do.</p>
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		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338324</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 06:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=4314#comment-338324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[amightywind wrote @ January 20th, 2011 at 7:01 pm 
Not as much as you might be led to believe. They&#039;re already attempting to restore proposed cuts. DoD is the safest place for it. As it stands now, it&#039;s ripe for deep cuts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amightywind wrote @ January 20th, 2011 at 7:01 pm<br />
Not as much as you might be led to believe. They&#8217;re already attempting to restore proposed cuts. DoD is the safest place for it. As it stands now, it&#8217;s ripe for deep cuts.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/01/20/resetting-us-china-space-cooperation/#comment-338319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 05:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=4314#comment-338319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[amightywind wrote @ January 20th, 2011 at 7:01 pm

&quot;&lt;i&gt;...hopefully many non-core activities will be dropped entirely.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Like the SLS.  Congress was jumping the gun on it anyways, since the VSE stated:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;NASA does not plan to develop new launch vehicle capabilities except where critical NASA needsâ€”such as heavy liftâ€”are not met by commercial or military systems. Depending on future human mission designs, NASA could decide to develop or acquire a heavy lift vehicle later this decade. Such a vehicle could be derived from elements of the Space Shuttle, existing commercial launch vehicles, or new designs.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Every funded program NASA has can use existing launchers, and Congress does not have plans requiring anything bigger.  Killing the unneeded SLS will save billions - that&#039;s $illions with a &#039;B&#039;.  Oh, and re-competing (or killing off too) the MPCV/Orion will also save $illions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amightywind wrote @ January 20th, 2011 at 7:01 pm</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>&#8230;hopefully many non-core activities will be dropped entirely.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Like the SLS.  Congress was jumping the gun on it anyways, since the VSE stated:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>NASA does not plan to develop new launch vehicle capabilities except where critical NASA needsâ€”such as heavy liftâ€”are not met by commercial or military systems. Depending on future human mission designs, NASA could decide to develop or acquire a heavy lift vehicle later this decade. Such a vehicle could be derived from elements of the Space Shuttle, existing commercial launch vehicles, or new designs.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Every funded program NASA has can use existing launchers, and Congress does not have plans requiring anything bigger.  Killing the unneeded SLS will save billions &#8211; that&#8217;s $illions with a &#8216;B&#8217;.  Oh, and re-competing (or killing off too) the MPCV/Orion will also save $illions.</p>
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