Given an opening, I broached a concept in which I had played a very small role – for a ‘quick’ series of Moon missions that had been briefed to him at OSTP a couple of months before. Nicknamed “Rocks to Robots” it really had been developed by Dr. Lee Morin and focused on using in situ resources to develop robots that could build other robots and gradually build up infrastructure (the paper was later published in “Lunar Settlements”; folks can contact me at my blog if interested.) Our chat focused on the balance between integration and extension of current economic policies and industrial investment, with my input being chiefly that it was necessary to balance the two from a policy perspective, at least. On that day I was particularly focused on the business end of things (it goes without saying I’m always interested in the mission ops end) – so I really enjoyed the time with him, talking about how public/private partnerships might be engaged through such a project.

In our discussion it was clear that not only had Dr. Marburger followed the briefing keenly but had seized onto the essential programmatic notion; that a huge development effort was not necessary on Earth prior to beginning the program; that launches could start as early as 2009-10, that much of what was needed could already be found – etc. He was animated in discussing the concept and invited me back.

I found him to be extremely thoughtful, with a probing, insightful mind and a genuine enthusiasm for innovation – enthusiasm that is generally espoused because it is so “politically correct” but which is rarely manifested. I was very sad to read of his passing, and appreciate the notice of it here.

“What I dont know and I doubt “Mike” would give a straight answer is why the veer off?”

When Dr. Griffin did “FLO”, the SRB’s had been flying for ten years, and he went with liquid instead and said the soilds were to expensive, et cetera. It had to be pressure because he was against them before he was for them.

First Lunar Outpost (FLO)

If he would have went with this on an open competition and it was fixed priced with milestones it would have at least had a shot of launching.

I dont see you post that often, but this post from the previous thread is a good sentiment, expressed in good words. Nicely done RGO

“Someone should have been micromanaging Dr. Griffin from the start. He should have been forced to follow President Bush’s Vision for Space Exploration and started COTS – D.”

Griffin’s veers off course did not require “micro” managing to see or correct. I have the op ed from SpaceNews which points out how his move to a Ares/Orion system was the end of the “Vision” and a start on the road to failure.

That BTW was soundly beat up on on this forum.

What I dont know and I doubt “Mike” would give a straight answer is why the veer off?

Was it that Mike got a political message that said “without the stakeholders there is no political support for the program” or did he just do a goofy on his on?

That answer awaits history but somehow I suspect the former…even though “mike” is a goofball. RGO

Hi RGO –

“You have never laid out ATK’s specific actions in all of this.”

Hello…not sure the context here but if you are referring to the Cx systems architecture and ATK’s role in it.

ATK has an amazing lobbying operation for one reason, there were (now there is one) senior senators who were very very powerful committed to ATK’s success and the entire “UTAH” political machine was geared to it as well…why?

The great “charade” If you will is the BS that red states go through on federal spending. The notion is really that federal spending is bad…except when it is spent in a red state on something that “makes” the state or local area succeed beyond the possibilities of local dollars…and then it is good.

Particularly in most red states, because they are so poor drop a federal installation or major federal contract into the area and the area blooms…particularly today.

Federal jobs and the jobs created by serious federal contracts are some of the best jobs going. They have pay scales and benefits which use to be common but as “red state” economic theories have moved into private corporations they are less and less “real”.

So in an area like Utah where there is really “nothing” the choice is a binary solutions et. Work at “Utah ski and resort” where the benes are low and the hours long…work at ATK which has federal dollars flowing into it and the salary is good, the benes good and the hours all time card. Which do you think is a better job or which pumps more into the local economy?

Clear Lake TX today would have probably dedveloped anyway (like the Woodlands or other areas around Houston TX) as a bedroom community) but I am just old enough to have pictures of the area before JSC or then the Manned Spaceflight Center…and it was no where. Pump lots of federal dollars in…instant city.

The SRB’s are a big chunk of ATK…you do the math.

It is something to remember when you hear “we want a government that lives within its means” just as long as that includes spending money where we are! RGO

“And as far as the 2010-2014 gap is concerned, “Mike Griffin thinks he can eliminate this gap.” Marburger also reminded this writer that the administration would not seek to micromanage Griffin-or any other agency head-in how they ran their agencies.

“The President gives these (agency heads) wide latitude in how they arrange their resources” to accomplish their missions, Marburger explained. “We don’t micromanage them.” “

Someone should have been micromanaging Dr. Griffin from the start. He should have been forced to follow President Bush’s Vision for Space Exploration and started COTS – D. If he had been funding it, starting in 2005, when he was supposed to the Nation would already have commercial access to the ISS, or a hell of a lot closer to flight then anything Constellation did.

Quality link, thanks.

RIP, but still.

It’s the classic “you see limits where I see opportunities” observation.
Uh, no, it’s the classic ‘you don’t see the forest for the trees… but there’s money in toothpicks.’

Bush Science Chief: Griffin Is Solution to NASA Human Space Flight “Gap” http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1018