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	<title>Comments on: Senate appropriators propose $17.9 billion for NASA</title>
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		<title>By: Prez Cannady</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354954</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Prez Cannady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 00:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Coastal Ron:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Keep in mind the design of the SLS was done by politicians...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Except for the fact that it...well...wasn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Coastal Ron:</p>
<blockquote><p>Keep in mind the design of the SLS was done by politicians&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Except for the fact that it&#8230;well&#8230;wasn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen C. Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen C. Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 20:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[chance wrote:

&lt;i&gt;Would Congressional Republicans really risk offending the party base? Iâ€™d think too many on the right would be livid if the Congress passed a budget that doesnâ€™t stick to or exceed the cuts.&lt;/i&gt;

The &quot;base&quot; is called that because they&#039;re the true believers.  They won&#039;t go to the other side no matter how much evidence they&#039;re presented that it&#039;s in their best interest.  The challenge is to energize the &quot;base&quot; to turn out, to vote, and most importantly to send money.

In my opinion, the GOP &quot;base&quot; &#8212; the Tea Party in particular &#8212; are a gullible lot and will believe whatever they&#039;re told on Fox News.  I run into them all the time here in the Space Coast &#8212; people who were told by Fox News that Obama &quot;killed&quot; NASA despite the obvious evidence to the contrary right in front of their noses.

So if the GOP fails to implement the so-called &quot;automatic&quot; cuts, the GOP will blame Obama, Fox News will tell blame Obama, and the &quot;base&quot; will believe it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>chance wrote:</p>
<p><i>Would Congressional Republicans really risk offending the party base? Iâ€™d think too many on the right would be livid if the Congress passed a budget that doesnâ€™t stick to or exceed the cuts.</i></p>
<p>The &#8220;base&#8221; is called that because they&#8217;re the true believers.  They won&#8217;t go to the other side no matter how much evidence they&#8217;re presented that it&#8217;s in their best interest.  The challenge is to energize the &#8220;base&#8221; to turn out, to vote, and most importantly to send money.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the GOP &#8220;base&#8221; &mdash; the Tea Party in particular &mdash; are a gullible lot and will believe whatever they&#8217;re told on Fox News.  I run into them all the time here in the Space Coast &mdash; people who were told by Fox News that Obama &#8220;killed&#8221; NASA despite the obvious evidence to the contrary right in front of their noses.</p>
<p>So if the GOP fails to implement the so-called &#8220;automatic&#8221; cuts, the GOP will blame Obama, Fox News will tell blame Obama, and the &#8220;base&#8221; will believe it.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354162</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dennis wrote @ September 16th, 2011 at 10:13 am

&quot;&lt;i&gt;We may end up with a whole lot less than what is being originally planned for.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

We already are ending up with a whole lot less, and they haven&#039;t even started on it yet.

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Remember both Apollo and the Shuttle programs in their infancy&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Keep in mind the design of the SLS was done by politicians, whereas the design of the Apollo lunar program hardware was done by engineers.

The goal of the Apollo engineers was to get to the Moon as fast as possible, whereas the goal of the politicians for the SLS is to spend money in their districts as fast as possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis wrote @ September 16th, 2011 at 10:13 am</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>We may end up with a whole lot less than what is being originally planned for.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>We already are ending up with a whole lot less, and they haven&#8217;t even started on it yet.</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Remember both Apollo and the Shuttle programs in their infancy</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Keep in mind the design of the SLS was done by politicians, whereas the design of the Apollo lunar program hardware was done by engineers.</p>
<p>The goal of the Apollo engineers was to get to the Moon as fast as possible, whereas the goal of the politicians for the SLS is to spend money in their districts as fast as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: chance</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 15:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, that&#039;s a pretty good explaination.  That said, while I&#039;m not saying you&#039;re wrong, I&#039;m also not quite convinced that&#039;s how it will go down.  Would Congressional Republicans really risk offending the party base?  I&#039;d think too many on the right would be livid if the Congress passed a budget that doesn&#039;t stick to or exceed the cuts.  I guess we&#039;ll see here soon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, that&#8217;s a pretty good explaination.  That said, while I&#8217;m not saying you&#8217;re wrong, I&#8217;m also not quite convinced that&#8217;s how it will go down.  Would Congressional Republicans really risk offending the party base?  I&#8217;d think too many on the right would be livid if the Congress passed a budget that doesn&#8217;t stick to or exceed the cuts.  I guess we&#8217;ll see here soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354155</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354155</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MrEarl wrote @ September 15th, 2011 at 3:48 pm

&quot;&lt;i&gt;weâ€™re not talking about the real world, weâ€™re talking DC-land&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Exactly.  Your supposition was that NASA was too small to give a large cut, and all I&#039;m saying is that logic doesn&#039;t enter into budget discussions, and what you&#039;re proposing is semi-logical.

&quot;&lt;i&gt;All this talk about killing the SLS through the deficit committee is just wishful thinking on the part of itâ€™s detractors.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

I&#039;ve never said that, but I do see the SLS failing for the same reasons Constellation did, since none of the systemic problems that caused the program to go horribly over budget and way over schedule have been identified or addressed.

The design of the SLS, which is based on the same major components as the Ares I/V, hasn&#039;t even changed, so what sane person could expect a different outcome?

Funded programs have to spend money, and NASA leadership has no choice but to move forward with the SLS.  But the SLS has far less enthusiasm than Constellation did, and Congressional budget cutters will NOT be in the mood to ADD MONEY to the SLS budget, so I see the handwriting on the wall for this franken-rocket.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MrEarl wrote @ September 15th, 2011 at 3:48 pm</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>weâ€™re not talking about the real world, weâ€™re talking DC-land</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly.  Your supposition was that NASA was too small to give a large cut, and all I&#8217;m saying is that logic doesn&#8217;t enter into budget discussions, and what you&#8217;re proposing is semi-logical.</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>All this talk about killing the SLS through the deficit committee is just wishful thinking on the part of itâ€™s detractors.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never said that, but I do see the SLS failing for the same reasons Constellation did, since none of the systemic problems that caused the program to go horribly over budget and way over schedule have been identified or addressed.</p>
<p>The design of the SLS, which is based on the same major components as the Ares I/V, hasn&#8217;t even changed, so what sane person could expect a different outcome?</p>
<p>Funded programs have to spend money, and NASA leadership has no choice but to move forward with the SLS.  But the SLS has far less enthusiasm than Constellation did, and Congressional budget cutters will NOT be in the mood to ADD MONEY to the SLS budget, so I see the handwriting on the wall for this franken-rocket.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354151</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dennis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What will come out of SLS, still remains to be seen.  Remember both Apollo and the Shuttle programs in their infancy, had visions of vehicles quite a bit different than what was produced, due to cost.  I suspect that SLS wll go through the fine tuning process as well.  We may end up with a whole lot less than what is being originally planned for.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What will come out of SLS, still remains to be seen.  Remember both Apollo and the Shuttle programs in their infancy, had visions of vehicles quite a bit different than what was produced, due to cost.  I suspect that SLS wll go through the fine tuning process as well.  We may end up with a whole lot less than what is being originally planned for.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen C. Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen C. Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[chance wrote:

&lt;i&gt;Could you explain this further? Are the cuts not really automatic, or are you saying Congress would repeal that provision?&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;ve been a part-time political consultant and aide for many years.  I&#039;ve seen many times where politicians passed laws and then ignored them.  Unless someone files suit, spends lots of money and years and court, the politicians will get away with it.

So let&#039;s say the automatic cut kicks in and NASA is supposed to be cut from (arbitrary numbers for argument&#039;s sake) $100 to $75.  The House Appropriations Committee votes to fund NASA at $90.  The rest of the Congress approves it and the President signs it.  That&#039;s the real budget for the next fiscal year.

It would take a majority of the Supreme Court to overturn their action, but who would bother to sue?  It would take years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs to overturn.  No one is going to sue and waste their time.  By the time it got to the Supreme Court, it&#039;ll be 2017 and the fiscal year will have long passed, as will the session of Congress that broke the law in the first place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>chance wrote:</p>
<p><i>Could you explain this further? Are the cuts not really automatic, or are you saying Congress would repeal that provision?</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been a part-time political consultant and aide for many years.  I&#8217;ve seen many times where politicians passed laws and then ignored them.  Unless someone files suit, spends lots of money and years and court, the politicians will get away with it.</p>
<p>So let&#8217;s say the automatic cut kicks in and NASA is supposed to be cut from (arbitrary numbers for argument&#8217;s sake) $100 to $75.  The House Appropriations Committee votes to fund NASA at $90.  The rest of the Congress approves it and the President signs it.  That&#8217;s the real budget for the next fiscal year.</p>
<p>It would take a majority of the Supreme Court to overturn their action, but who would bother to sue?  It would take years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs to overturn.  No one is going to sue and waste their time.  By the time it got to the Supreme Court, it&#8217;ll be 2017 and the fiscal year will have long passed, as will the session of Congress that broke the law in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: MrEarl</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354091</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MrEarl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First off Ron, we&#039;re not talking about the real world, we&#039;re talking DC-land.   
If there is a cut in NASA funding it will be in the millions, not billions and spread throughout the agency.  
All this talk about killing the SLS through the deficit committee is just wishful thinking on the part of it&#039;s detractors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off Ron, we&#8217;re not talking about the real world, we&#8217;re talking DC-land.<br />
If there is a cut in NASA funding it will be in the millions, not billions and spread throughout the agency.<br />
All this talk about killing the SLS through the deficit committee is just wishful thinking on the part of it&#8217;s detractors.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MrEarl wrote @ September 15th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Cuts to NASA, and other small agencies will be largely ignored by the committee because the amount of money that can be taken from those agencies is not worth quibbling over.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

If it&#039;s not worth quibbling over, then they have no reason NOT to cut NASA, since no one will quibble over it.

Sorry, your logic doesn&#039;t make sense in the real world.

NASA is no more inherently safe than any other government agency or department - they all have their supporters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MrEarl wrote @ September 15th, 2011 at 2:08 pm</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Cuts to NASA, and other small agencies will be largely ignored by the committee because the amount of money that can be taken from those agencies is not worth quibbling over.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s not worth quibbling over, then they have no reason NOT to cut NASA, since no one will quibble over it.</p>
<p>Sorry, your logic doesn&#8217;t make sense in the real world.</p>
<p>NASA is no more inherently safe than any other government agency or department &#8211; they all have their supporters.</p>
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		<title>By: MrEarl</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/14/senate-appropriators-propose-17-9-billion-for-nasa/#comment-354076</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MrEarl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5005#comment-354076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few things that need to be clarified.
The joint budget deficit committee needs to reduce the budget deficit by $1.5T over 10 years.  The president has also asked the committee to cut an additional $450B to offset his requested jobs package for a total of approx. $1.95T.  Thatâ€™s only $190B per year.  
NASAâ€™s budget is approx. $17B per year. Eliminating NASA would only save $170B over that 10 year span.  A little less than 10% really.
The operative word from my first sentence is reduce. That could come in the form of cuts or â€œrevenue enhancementsâ€.   They have to have this plan ready to present by November 23rd or there will be across the board cuts in entitlements and defense spending, not other discretionary spending.  
Spending reductions can come from anywhere and to not have to be evenly distributed.  What will happen is that the Democrats will focus on cuts in defense spending while republicans will focus on cuts in entitlements.  Cuts to NASA, and other small agencies will be largely ignored by the committee because the amount of money that can be taken from those agencies is not worth quibbling over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few things that need to be clarified.<br />
The joint budget deficit committee needs to reduce the budget deficit by $1.5T over 10 years.  The president has also asked the committee to cut an additional $450B to offset his requested jobs package for a total of approx. $1.95T.  Thatâ€™s only $190B per year.<br />
NASAâ€™s budget is approx. $17B per year. Eliminating NASA would only save $170B over that 10 year span.  A little less than 10% really.<br />
The operative word from my first sentence is reduce. That could come in the form of cuts or â€œrevenue enhancementsâ€.   They have to have this plan ready to present by November 23rd or there will be across the board cuts in entitlements and defense spending, not other discretionary spending.<br />
Spending reductions can come from anywhere and to not have to be evenly distributed.  What will happen is that the Democrats will focus on cuts in defense spending while republicans will focus on cuts in entitlements.  Cuts to NASA, and other small agencies will be largely ignored by the committee because the amount of money that can be taken from those agencies is not worth quibbling over.</p>
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