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	<title>Comments on: How do you pay for JWST?</title>
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	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Rhyolite</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355342</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rhyolite]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Goldin allowed the mirror size to be increased to 6.5 m, which motivated the fancy folder design.&quot;

I think Goldin actually pushed it up to 8 m at one point but it was later descoped to 6.5 m.  Incidentally, Lockheed proposed doing a 6 m monolithic telescope by enlarging the Atlas fairing to 7 m but they lost out to TRW (now NG) who proposed a folding design.  In hindsight, that probably would have been a better alternative.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Goldin allowed the mirror size to be increased to 6.5 m, which motivated the fancy folder design.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think Goldin actually pushed it up to 8 m at one point but it was later descoped to 6.5 m.  Incidentally, Lockheed proposed doing a 6 m monolithic telescope by enlarging the Atlas fairing to 7 m but they lost out to TRW (now NG) who proposed a folding design.  In hindsight, that probably would have been a better alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: David Davenport</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355313</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Davenport]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 03:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;And of course, the neocons will blame Obama. ... &lt;/i&gt;

My understanding is that the Webb started getting tangled -- geddit? -- when Dan Goldin was the boss.  Yes, the Webb gies back a ways.

The Euro. Space Agency agreed to launch the thing on Ariane V, which can accommodate a four meter diameter shroud.  The original JWST design called for a four m. nominal diameter main telescope mirror.

Goldin allowed the mirror size to be increased to 6.5 m, which motivated the fancy folder design.  Why the French haven&#039;t tried during the past fifteen or so years to enlarge Ariane to  handle a larger diameter shroud, I can&#039;t say.

The question is, is a 6.5 m. main mirror really necessary?  Yes, I agree that bigger telescopes are better as a general principle. But would infrared astronomy keel over and die if the Webb main mirror were, say, 5 m. in diameter? ( 5 m. -- OK for Delta IV or Shuttle or  upsized Ariane. )]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And of course, the neocons will blame Obama. &#8230; </i></p>
<p>My understanding is that the Webb started getting tangled &#8212; geddit? &#8212; when Dan Goldin was the boss.  Yes, the Webb gies back a ways.</p>
<p>The Euro. Space Agency agreed to launch the thing on Ariane V, which can accommodate a four meter diameter shroud.  The original JWST design called for a four m. nominal diameter main telescope mirror.</p>
<p>Goldin allowed the mirror size to be increased to 6.5 m, which motivated the fancy folder design.  Why the French haven&#8217;t tried during the past fifteen or so years to enlarge Ariane to  handle a larger diameter shroud, I can&#8217;t say.</p>
<p>The question is, is a 6.5 m. main mirror really necessary?  Yes, I agree that bigger telescopes are better as a general principle. But would infrared astronomy keel over and die if the Webb main mirror were, say, 5 m. in diameter? ( 5 m. &#8212; OK for Delta IV or Shuttle or  upsized Ariane. )</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355279</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 15:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;If past experience is any guide, the neocons will stop JWST, move the work from Mikulskyâ€™s district to a â€œredâ€ one, and then start it back up again.&lt;/em&gt;

If past experience is any guide, you&#039;ll continue to make meaningless references to &quot;neocons&quot; without explaining what &quot;neocons&quot; are, or what they have to do with space policy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>If past experience is any guide, the neocons will stop JWST, move the work from Mikulskyâ€™s district to a â€œredâ€ one, and then start it back up again.</em></p>
<p>If past experience is any guide, you&#8217;ll continue to make meaningless references to &#8220;neocons&#8221; without explaining what &#8220;neocons&#8221; are, or what they have to do with space policy.</p>
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		<title>By: David Davenport</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355256</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Davenport]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 00:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355256</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;It would be better to keep the production line running. The second in a series of duplicate spacecraft would be about 10% of the cost of the first,...&lt;/I&gt;

That&#039;s a splendid idea. Double up and double down on the &quot;fancy folder&quot; WEbb Telescope design. Just great.

Why not re-start manufacture of Space Shuttles? Following your logic, Shuttle costs will be cheaper with each iteration, correct? 

Hey, we could save money by re-starting Saturn V production.  Wait, NASA&#039;s already trying to do that.  Except they&#039;ve changed the name.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It would be better to keep the production line running. The second in a series of duplicate spacecraft would be about 10% of the cost of the first,&#8230;</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a splendid idea. Double up and double down on the &#8220;fancy folder&#8221; WEbb Telescope design. Just great.</p>
<p>Why not re-start manufacture of Space Shuttles? Following your logic, Shuttle costs will be cheaper with each iteration, correct? </p>
<p>Hey, we could save money by re-starting Saturn V production.  Wait, NASA&#8217;s already trying to do that.  Except they&#8217;ve changed the name.</p>
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		<title>By: E.P. Grondine</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355250</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E.P. Grondine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 20:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If past experience is any guide, the neocons will stop JWST, move the work from Mikulsky&#039;s district to a &quot;red&quot; one, and then start it back up again.

Or they&#039;ll label JWST as pork for Mikulsky.

In the meantime, Ed Weiler will go off somewhere and work as a mouthpiece, as did Griffin.

And of course, the neocons will blame Obama.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If past experience is any guide, the neocons will stop JWST, move the work from Mikulsky&#8217;s district to a &#8220;red&#8221; one, and then start it back up again.</p>
<p>Or they&#8217;ll label JWST as pork for Mikulsky.</p>
<p>In the meantime, Ed Weiler will go off somewhere and work as a mouthpiece, as did Griffin.</p>
<p>And of course, the neocons will blame Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: vulture4</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vulture4]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 15:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It would be better to keep the production line running. The second in a series of duplicate spacecraft would be about 10% of the cost of the first, cheaper than a servicing mission. If we start now, it should be ready for final assembly just about the time when we find out what needs to be changed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be better to keep the production line running. The second in a series of duplicate spacecraft would be about 10% of the cost of the first, cheaper than a servicing mission. If we start now, it should be ready for final assembly just about the time when we find out what needs to be changed.</p>
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		<title>By: David Davenport</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Davenport]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 15:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s not let a good crisis be wasted.

It&#039;s time to start talking up a service mission to L2. ... Astronauts Curly, Larry and Moe  equipped with pry bars and hammers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not let a good crisis be wasted.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s time to start talking up a service mission to L2. &#8230; Astronauts Curly, Larry and Moe  equipped with pry bars and hammers.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhyolite</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rhyolite]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 19:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[â€œYou do realize that most of the cost increase for JWST is in support of testing, right? Thereâ€™s literally years of testing planned before launch, precisely because it is a complex system.â€

Testing is the right way to retire risk in a complex system but it still does not excuse the cost over runs.  We knew this was a complex system from the beginning and the testing should have been included in the original estimates.  We just didn&#039;t discover that JWST was complex ten years into the project.  If the full costs had been fully described upfront, a lower risk alternative may have been selected instead. 

Testing also only gets you so far.  Aside from the Rumsfeldian unknown unknowns, launch vehicles fail and so do satellite buses that have been built in significant numbers.  That is the nature of the business and nothing we can do will change it in the foreseeable future.  Replacing a JWST failure would take the better part of a decade and cost several billion dollars.  It would likely suck the life out of our space sciences community for an entire generation.  Putting that many eggs in an uncertain basket is unwise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>â€œYou do realize that most of the cost increase for JWST is in support of testing, right? Thereâ€™s literally years of testing planned before launch, precisely because it is a complex system.â€</p>
<p>Testing is the right way to retire risk in a complex system but it still does not excuse the cost over runs.  We knew this was a complex system from the beginning and the testing should have been included in the original estimates.  We just didn&#8217;t discover that JWST was complex ten years into the project.  If the full costs had been fully described upfront, a lower risk alternative may have been selected instead. </p>
<p>Testing also only gets you so far.  Aside from the Rumsfeldian unknown unknowns, launch vehicles fail and so do satellite buses that have been built in significant numbers.  That is the nature of the business and nothing we can do will change it in the foreseeable future.  Replacing a JWST failure would take the better part of a decade and cost several billion dollars.  It would likely suck the life out of our space sciences community for an entire generation.  Putting that many eggs in an uncertain basket is unwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert G. Oler</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355091</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert G. Oler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gary.  I have lost the bubble on ExoMars...last I heard we were providing the launch vehicle?  RGO]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary.  I have lost the bubble on ExoMars&#8230;last I heard we were providing the launch vehicle?  RGO</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/09/29/how-do-you-pay-for-jwst/#comment-355084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Anderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 14:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5038#comment-355084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Space news is reporting ExoMars is finished?  Another JWST casualty?

Gary Anderson
New England Reg Coordinator
TPIS]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Space news is reporting ExoMars is finished?  Another JWST casualty?</p>
<p>Gary Anderson<br />
New England Reg Coordinator<br />
TPIS</p>
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