“Again, best you refresh yourself with DoC/NASA affiliations since the agency was birthed.”

I’ll take that as a “no”, that you can’t point to any evidence that the DoD wants or needs NASA today. Thanks for that confirmation.

Everybody knows the history of NASA, and 50 years ago there was a lot of overlap with the military side of the government, but post-Challenger the DoD rid itself of any need for NASA.

Your proposition, like most things you say, is unsupportable by any substantial evidence.

In fact, it is. You just fail to comprehend what was written. In fact, the original source statement reads as follows: DCSCA wrote @ November 27th, 2011 at 3:53 pm “the best way to save NASA is to tuck it under the wing as a civilian department of the DoD as a national security asset.” A very back to the future statement BTW. YOUR allegation/assertion reads as follows: “The DoD doesn’t even see NASA as a national security asset.”

You are, in fact, quite literally arguing with yourself. Again, best you refresh yourself with DoC/NASA affiliations since the agency was birthed.

BTW, December 1, 2011 has arrived… and still no crewed or cargoed Dragons fly. Tick-tock, tick-tock.

“Again, revisit the development of American civilian space operations…To deny any association/ties between the DoD and NASA is simply absurd.”

That is not the topic of discussion. Again you rely on events that happened 50 years ago but are not relevant today. 25 years ago Challenger blew up, and since then the DoD has divorced itself from relying on NASA.

Do they share government-owned facilities? Sure, why not. But that doesn’t mean that the DoD considers NASA “a national security asset”, which is your prime allegation.

In fact you haven’t offered ANY evidence to support your wacko theory. None. Nada. Zero.

Go back and try again.

=yawn= Again, revisit the development of American civilian space operations and reacquaint yourself with some general knowledge of same and its close association with the DoD. In so far as ‘civilian’ HSF goes, you’ll relearn that the majority of American astronauts were culled from the ranks of military test pilots experienced in high altitude research conducted by the services; that in both Project Mercury and Project Gemini, they were lofted on DoD developed missiles (the Redstone, Atlas and Titan); and their spacecraft (except for Apollo) were derived from DoD projects and funding, (Mercury was originally a USAF project; Gemini aka (Mercury Mark II ) design; the Agena target vehicles were shells derived from DoD funded baseline spysats of the period and the space shuttle orbiter was designed/developed with DoD operations/funding as well. Even their spacesuits were derived from DoD high altitude flight suits. Apollo was essentially unique in that its Saturn V. CSM and LM and rover were designed from civilian specs, yet its crews were mostly military personnel (however, even the Saturn I class was essentially a ‘cluster’ design of Redstone/Jupiter class missiles, designed/funded for miitary use by Von Braun’s Huntsville team.) And the overlap in shared facilities/locales is self-evident. To deny any association/ties between the DoD and NASA is simply absurd.

@common sense wrote @ November 30th, 2011 at 11:10 am
=yawn = Which universe? And does it really matter to even know right now? No. The answers have waited 15 billion years– another 20 or 20 years wont matter much. You’re attempting to justify funding– funding which 41 cents of every dollar is borrowed- to subsidize the luxury of buying more toys for stargazers, who BTW have plenty of toys already in place on Earth and above it- in an era of massive fiscal austerity; in a time when 25% of American kids live at or below the poverty line; in a land where roads are crumbling, bridges collapsing and schools disintegrating and the nation is literally teetering on bankruptcy. Clearly balancing the national checkbook is a more complex project for astroacademia than any other project they’ve faced. Make the best of what you’ve got.

And let’s be clear- the questions you seek answers to in no way ‘improve our lives on Earth’– in fact, that quest only reaffirms our place on it and its insignificance in the known cosmos. And government funding for such contemplative endeavors can wait another 20-25 years for when times are better. Of course, astroacademia can always seek sponsorship from other sources (like the PRC) or in the private sector– but then you’d have to convince Burger King or Exxon or Apple where the cost-benefit is in bigger, more costly astroacademic toys. The Webb Telescope and the Supercollider are classic examples of why these kind of ‘black hole’ research projects are a massive waste of tax dollars.

Clearly you are not interested whatsoever in the origin of life or of this Universe. Maybe a little too complex for you? What is the age of the Universe? Do you know? Now can you venture a wild guess why it is important to be able to “see” that far? Could it be the revelations to you might scare all your beliefs?

In any case if astrophysicists are what you say they are, how do you qualify yourself? What is it you actually do to improve our lives here on Earth?

I would really like to know but I won’t hold my breath.

Maybe we could tuck your job under the mighty wing of the DoD???

“You best revisit the history of DoD/NASA operations, location of facilities, etc.”

You being stuck in the 60’s has blinded you to what happened in the 80’s – Challenger. After Challenger the DoD realized that NASA could not be depended upon for anything, and that continues to this day. You lack of ability to provide any supporting evidence just drives home that point.

“a destination which has claimed 26 of the 30 efforts to reach it as failures”

Again, being stuck in 60’s lore blinds you to the reality of what’s been happening over the past decade – a string of five straight U.S. successes. Considering the breakthroughs and attention those other rovers, landers and orbiters have generated, and the science potential of a rover 5X as big as Spirit and Opportunity, $2.5B is a good investment if we ever plan on going to Mars.

“in an era when the United States is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy is a massive waste of dwindling resources.”

Why do you bother posting here if your goal is to shut down all the space programs. Maybe you should be posting elsewhere, where your comments will resonant more than here. You tend to sound like Danny Downer, where the rest of us are excited about the future of space exploration – don’t you see the disconnect?

“The DoD doesn’t even see NASA as a national security asset”

=yawn= You best revisit the history of DoD/NASA operations, location of facilities, etc. Then eat your own words. Sending a spiffy- and iffy- $2.5 billion atomic rover to Mars, a destination which has claimed 26 of the 30 efforts to reach it as failures, in an era when the United States is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy is a massive waste of dwindling resources.

Surviving through the Age of Austerity with some semblence of budgetary stability for mid-to-long term planning. Revisit Vanguard’s task group. Civilian staffed but under the wing of the DoD. Right now NASA is trying to justify/perpetuate its need to exist, justl ike any other government agency in tight times. As currently structured, it has outlived its raison d’etre as a stand alone civilian agency. It’s a Cold War relic. The nation doesnt need, nor can afford, three, for or five different ‘space agencies’ cloaked in secrecy. Consolidation is the future- and is cost-effective.

@common sense wrote @ November 28th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
And you seem content wasting other people’s money in austere times. ‘Wow’ us with what mysteries of the 15 billion year old universe are so pressing as to necessitate revelation to humans now that can’t wait another 25 years for better fiscal times. None, of course, but it is a nice pitch for make-work for befuddled astro-academia, unemployable at more practical, productive and profitable down-to-earth enterprises in tough times– like teaching kids math, road building and flipping burgers.

I’ll play along for a bit. what do you see NASA doing as a civilian DoD national asset? RGO

“There is nothing it could possibly discover of value that has been there 15 billion years to merit the ROI that can’t wait another 25 or 30 years for discovery in better economic times, when such toys for unemployable astronmers in the real world are more affordable..”

Not only a historian and a spacecraft designer you are also an astrophysicist!

Wow.