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	<title>Comments on: House hearing revisits commercial crew concerns; Mars makes a cameo</title>
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	<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo</link>
	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Dark Blue Nine</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-364789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dark Blue Nine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 12:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-364789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Itâ€™s easy to understand why any change to ISS operations frightens commercial HSF types&quot;

No, it&#039;s not.  Companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin are backed by billionaires.  NASA may need them for ISS, but they don&#039;t need NASA.  And companies like Boeing and Sierra Nevada have many lines of business of which commercial space flight is only one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Itâ€™s easy to understand why any change to ISS operations frightens commercial HSF types&#8221;</p>
<p>No, it&#8217;s not.  Companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin are backed by billionaires.  NASA may need them for ISS, but they don&#8217;t need NASA.  And companies like Boeing and Sierra Nevada have many lines of business of which commercial space flight is only one.</p>
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		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-364772</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-364772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Rand Simberg wrote @ March 11th, 2012 at 8:19 pm/Dark Blue Nine wrote @ March 12th, 2012 at 11:12 pm

It&#039;s easy to understand why any change to ISS operations frightens commercial HSF types- as losing a faux government financed destination means losing the only customer and spells doom for fledgling commercial firms. And dealing w/the US government is a better prospect than cutting deals w/others- like the PRC.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rand Simberg wrote @ March 11th, 2012 at 8:19 pm/Dark Blue Nine wrote @ March 12th, 2012 at 11:12 pm</p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to understand why any change to ISS operations frightens commercial HSF types- as losing a faux government financed destination means losing the only customer and spells doom for fledgling commercial firms. And dealing w/the US government is a better prospect than cutting deals w/others- like the PRC.</p>
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		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-364501</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-364501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vulture4 wrote @ March 13th, 2012 at 1:47 pm 

If the fiscal arc isn&#039;t changed soon- soon being a few years- that may be inevitable. But by then, would they want a part of it anyway-- or as part of a fiscal deal we&#039;d never hear directly about. We really have no idea what &#039;deals&#039; have been cut-- or could be cut-- to assure continued borrowing to maintain some fig leaf of stability given the dollar is the chief reserve currency in the world. But if the situation was reversed, where would you draw the line and say no. The ISS isn&#039;t hong Kong. Frankly, if a good deal could be cut, unloading the bulk of U.S. elements as is (like a bad piece of real estate- you know, something Americans showedd recently they excelled at by bundling and unloading bad assets on overseas buyers) to the PRC would be a savvy move as its inevitably going to re-enter and splash within a decade.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vulture4 wrote @ March 13th, 2012 at 1:47 pm </p>
<p>If the fiscal arc isn&#8217;t changed soon- soon being a few years- that may be inevitable. But by then, would they want a part of it anyway&#8211; or as part of a fiscal deal we&#8217;d never hear directly about. We really have no idea what &#8216;deals&#8217; have been cut&#8211; or could be cut&#8211; to assure continued borrowing to maintain some fig leaf of stability given the dollar is the chief reserve currency in the world. But if the situation was reversed, where would you draw the line and say no. The ISS isn&#8217;t hong Kong. Frankly, if a good deal could be cut, unloading the bulk of U.S. elements as is (like a bad piece of real estate- you know, something Americans showedd recently they excelled at by bundling and unloading bad assets on overseas buyers) to the PRC would be a savvy move as its inevitably going to re-enter and splash within a decade.</p>
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		<title>By: vulture4</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-364457</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vulture4]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-364457</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What we need to do is sell a new share to China.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What we need to do is sell a new share to China.</p>
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		<title>By: Dark Blue Nine</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-364406</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dark Blue Nine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 03:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-364406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Anyithing is possible and everything can changeâ€“ sometimes w/t stroke of a pen or for the right price in hard times.&quot;

You can stroke your pen for as long as you want and charge whatever price you want for that in these &quot;hard times&quot;, and it won&#039;t change the fact that no one is going to purchase NASA&#039;s share in the ISS because the ISS can&#039;t function without NASA.

What a delusional weirdo you are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Anyithing is possible and everything can changeâ€“ sometimes w/t stroke of a pen or for the right price in hard times.&#8221;</p>
<p>You can stroke your pen for as long as you want and charge whatever price you want for that in these &#8220;hard times&#8221;, and it won&#8217;t change the fact that no one is going to purchase NASA&#8217;s share in the ISS because the ISS can&#8217;t function without NASA.</p>
<p>What a delusional weirdo you are.</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-364232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 00:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-364232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Anyithing is possible and everything can changeâ€“ sometimes w/t stroke of a pen or for the right price in hard times.&lt;/em&gt;

Again with this idiotic &quot;stroke of the pen&quot; nonsense.  Did you cut class the day they explained the Constitution, and separation of powers?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Anyithing is possible and everything can changeâ€“ sometimes w/t stroke of a pen or for the right price in hard times.</em></p>
<p>Again with this idiotic &#8220;stroke of the pen&#8221; nonsense.  Did you cut class the day they explained the Constitution, and separation of powers?</p>
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		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-364205</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-364205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dark Blue Nine wrote @ March 9th, 2012 at 10:10 am 

&quot;The ISS partnership is an intergovernment agreement. Itâ€™s not a contract that can be subcontracted or a lease that can be sublet. And the US canâ€™t â€œsell off its stakeâ€. Without NASA ground assets and workforce, the ISS cannot be operated. No one is going to buy an inoperable space station.&quot;

In fact, this is classic gibberish-- and surprisingly rigid, if not obstructionist-in-denial- thinking. Anyithing is possible and everything can change-- sometimes w/t stroke of a pen or for the right price in hard times. Where have you been for the past 25 years. The Soviet Union is gone, the PRC is rising, the U.S. government has to borrow 43 cents of every dollar it spendas and gas is $5/gallon. We&#039;re in the Age of Austerity and the ISS is a sad relic- an engineering marvel-turned-dinosaur of past planning from an era long gone. .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dark Blue Nine wrote @ March 9th, 2012 at 10:10 am </p>
<p>&#8220;The ISS partnership is an intergovernment agreement. Itâ€™s not a contract that can be subcontracted or a lease that can be sublet. And the US canâ€™t â€œsell off its stakeâ€. Without NASA ground assets and workforce, the ISS cannot be operated. No one is going to buy an inoperable space station.&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, this is classic gibberish&#8211; and surprisingly rigid, if not obstructionist-in-denial- thinking. Anyithing is possible and everything can change&#8211; sometimes w/t stroke of a pen or for the right price in hard times. Where have you been for the past 25 years. The Soviet Union is gone, the PRC is rising, the U.S. government has to borrow 43 cents of every dollar it spendas and gas is $5/gallon. We&#8217;re in the Age of Austerity and the ISS is a sad relic- an engineering marvel-turned-dinosaur of past planning from an era long gone. .</p>
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		<title>By: A M Swallow</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-363986</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A M Swallow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 04:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-363986</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With big things watch out for the joke factor.  The SLS can lift something like 30 people to the ISS in one go.  That puts it in the same category as a school bus.  A class can arrive in a school bus but one man by himself will be laughed at.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With big things watch out for the joke factor.  The SLS can lift something like 30 people to the ISS in one go.  That puts it in the same category as a school bus.  A class can arrive in a school bus but one man by himself will be laughed at.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Boozer</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-363950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rick Boozer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-363950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Vladislaw
&lt;i&gt;&quot;Two of my friends that are fairly conservative Republicans are in a different catagory you do not address:
 
National Prestige â€“ Biggest Stick.
 
They honestly believe that when America does the biggest anything it acts as another subconcious deterent and the more we pile up the more other countries look to us.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, I&#039;ve run into those too, but they really fit into one of my categories thusly:

Those who know that ULA and SpaceX can produce a super heavy lift for much less than what SLS will cost and sooner besides, but support SLS anyway (so they belong to Type 1 and Type 2 and possibly even Type 3).

Those who don&#039;t know that a super heavy lift can be made sooner for much less than SLS and thus belong to both Type 2 and 9.

Of course, either of these (like most SLS backers) are examples of a Type 10 admixture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Vladislaw<br />
<i>&#8220;Two of my friends that are fairly conservative Republicans are in a different catagory you do not address:</p>
<p>National Prestige â€“ Biggest Stick.</p>
<p>They honestly believe that when America does the biggest anything it acts as another subconcious deterent and the more we pile up the more other countries look to us.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Yeah, I&#8217;ve run into those too, but they really fit into one of my categories thusly:</p>
<p>Those who know that ULA and SpaceX can produce a super heavy lift for much less than what SLS will cost and sooner besides, but support SLS anyway (so they belong to Type 1 and Type 2 and possibly even Type 3).</p>
<p>Those who don&#8217;t know that a super heavy lift can be made sooner for much less than SLS and thus belong to both Type 2 and 9.</p>
<p>Of course, either of these (like most SLS backers) are examples of a Type 10 admixture.</p>
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		<title>By: pathfinder_01</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2012/03/08/house-hearing-revisits-commercial-crew-concerns-mars-makes-a-cameo/#comment-363940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pathfinder_01]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=5470#comment-363940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While it would be nice to reuse the ISS at its end of life technologically we are not there yet. I think it will be used till 2028, but the way it is built is that the modules one integrated would be difficult(if not near impossible) to take apart and there are some issues like metal fatigue that are not easy to check for in space there are also parts like say thruster that are not easy to replace.  In the future I can see space stations becoming longer life with more ability to fix and detect things on orbit. ISS itself has a rack system that allows for certain internal upgrades and changes.

Yeah the Apollo mind set is limiting. Need large rocket to launch everything all at once vs.  use what we have as much as possible. Skylab for instance did have regenerative CO2 and Humidity removal, but not water recycling. Imagine how much space a water tank that must store enough water for three, three person missions of three months must have taken. Right now what would be helpful technology wise would be the ability to wash clothing in space. As it stands now crews on the ISS are sent enough clothing to last their mission. They do wear clothing more than one day, but still that is a lot of space being taken up by fresh clothing not to mention resupply.

The Boeing mission pretty much just uses heavy lift to send Orion to l1/l2 directly or with unfueled(or partially fueled) lander or to send a chemical kick stage out for NEO/Mars missions. SEP does most of the work.  The mars kick stage is like 40MT.  Getting that much mass out to l1/l2 could be done with current rockets or slight upgrades to them. Heck they even mention using SEP tugs to lug cyrogenic propellant to a l1 depot!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it would be nice to reuse the ISS at its end of life technologically we are not there yet. I think it will be used till 2028, but the way it is built is that the modules one integrated would be difficult(if not near impossible) to take apart and there are some issues like metal fatigue that are not easy to check for in space there are also parts like say thruster that are not easy to replace.  In the future I can see space stations becoming longer life with more ability to fix and detect things on orbit. ISS itself has a rack system that allows for certain internal upgrades and changes.</p>
<p>Yeah the Apollo mind set is limiting. Need large rocket to launch everything all at once vs.  use what we have as much as possible. Skylab for instance did have regenerative CO2 and Humidity removal, but not water recycling. Imagine how much space a water tank that must store enough water for three, three person missions of three months must have taken. Right now what would be helpful technology wise would be the ability to wash clothing in space. As it stands now crews on the ISS are sent enough clothing to last their mission. They do wear clothing more than one day, but still that is a lot of space being taken up by fresh clothing not to mention resupply.</p>
<p>The Boeing mission pretty much just uses heavy lift to send Orion to l1/l2 directly or with unfueled(or partially fueled) lander or to send a chemical kick stage out for NEO/Mars missions. SEP does most of the work.  The mars kick stage is like 40MT.  Getting that much mass out to l1/l2 could be done with current rockets or slight upgrades to them. Heck they even mention using SEP tugs to lug cyrogenic propellant to a l1 depot!</p>
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