And here is NASA’s website for Orion/MPCV. It’s the same, but units are in pounds instead of kg.
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/617408main_fs_2011-12-058-jsc_orion_quickfacts.pdf

You have to include total launch mass: capsule, service module, launch abort system, including propellant. Dragon has draco thrusters built into the capsule for launch abort, so they don’t have a separate abort system.

Here is the Wikipedia article for Dragon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_(spacecraft)

And the SpaceX web page
http://www.spacex.com/dragon.php

Notice the masses I gave are correct. The SpaceX Dragon has a double hull, just like the Apollo command module and Orion/MPCV. The inner hull for all of them is aluminum, but the outer hull, aka back shell, is different. The SpaceX page just claims their back shell is covered in SpaceX Proprietary Ablative Material. It’s designed to be reusable, so whatever they’re using has to be cleaned so it can be launched again. I still suspect the outer hull (aka back shell) is titanium alloy. Whatever they paint it with will have to be cleaned off and re-painted before another launch.

“Except it isn’t.”

Except it is.

There, I’ve used the DCSCA standard of sufficient argument.

“….but historically because of the recession it’s been Romney’s election to lose, and nothing has changed about that.”

Except it isn’t.

Romney is not in office and this is clearly Obama’s election to lose, as the President, aka ‘Mr. Spock’ has positioned himself as a logical defender of his record by prefacing nearly every pitch with, look what we inherited, things could be worse’ while Romney has to say as little as possible, and has advanced through attrition and has firmed up support in the GOP base. The revenue raised reinforces this. This is why, with respect to space policy, Romney has avoided articulating anything more than reitereated the nebulous ‘let’s form a committee and study the problem.’ The moonbase slapdown of Newt served its purpose and is old news already. His space advisors, such as they are, advocate NASA ops as an element of national security and he has reiterated a strong defense stance recently in a nicely timed speech over Memorial Day in San Diego, home of multiple DoD contractors and installations, down the coast from his LaJolla beachfront home. The next potential slapdpwn will be the unconstitutional ruling of Obamacare. If Obama wants to win, he’d better firm up his messaging and torpedo Romney as another laisse-faire minded Hoover against all things FDR. The nation needs a Captain Kirk. It has a Mr. Spock. And the alternative is looking more and more like a Commadore Decker w/an elevator for his cars in his home.

“A sophisticated view should tell you that this cycle is shaping up to be Obama’s to lose rather than Romney’s to win” “Not that you are sophisticated”

Except, of course, DCSCA is.

“A sophisticated view should tell you that this cycle is shaping up to be Obama’s to lose rather than Romney’s to win”

Not that you are sophisticated, but historically because of the recession it’s been Romney’s election to lose, and nothing has changed about that.

that is almost as politically sophisticated as the idiots who put together the recall.

Hmmm. Recalls can work. Ask the ‘idiots’ aka your fellow Americans who successfully recalled Gov. Davis in California. A sophisticated view should tell you that this cycle is shaping up to be Obama’s to lose rather than Romney’s to win– and Obama isn’t helping him self much of late. The sloppy messaging, unfavorable economic data and the looming unconstitutionality ruling of Obamacare are dominos falling and failing the incumbant just five months out. Romney’s VP selection will be his next benchmark. But his space policy remains nebulous at best and far down his agenda at worst. WE only know he’d fire anybody who’d come to him with talk of moonbases.

“I have said Energia is a “safe, cheaper and more practical alternatives that can be implemented sooner”. Falcon 9 Heavy can only life Dragon to Mars.”

You are falling into the same trap that others have – you think serially instead of in parallel.

The Apollo Moon missions were an example of serial thinking. One 119mt HLV launch to lift everything needed for the mission.

The 450mt ISS is an example of thinking in parallel. Many rockets and spacecraft were used to assemble the station and to keep it operating.

So it will be with any vehicle we build for going to Mars – it will be built out of modular components, and it will be moved on it’s way by reusable boosters that were lifted individually.

“What do you propose?”

Energia was too small to do everything in one launch for a full-up Mars mission, as was the Ares V, and as is the SLS. Modular construction using many low-cost & existing rockets is the way to go.

Our Congress will come around soon, just as they came to their senses with the over-budget, behind-schedule Constellation program.

But you can use multiple launches rather than SLS to build a spacecraft to go to Mars. If ever.

“But Congress isn’t listening. What do you propose?”

To go commercial all the way. Remove Congress from the decision loop.