As to China, they have said many times that they are not in a race in space. Their preference would be to “join the club” of world leaders on the ISS. I think we should invite them.

That said, back here in the real world, we could have had DIRECT and 2 manned launch systems with no disruption to our technology base for the money wasted on Ares 1.

That money is gone, and that time is as well.

“And as the PRC knows…”

Yes, I’m sure they tell you, since you are such an acknowledged expert in… something China and space related. Whatever.

“…it makes for a stellar projection of political power and economic strength on Earth…”

You’re having delusions of grandeur (again).

All China has said is that they are “studying” going to the Moon. When the U.S. and the Soviet Union were jockeying for the hearts of minds of the world in the 60’s, the fate of countries and economic spheres were at stake. That’s not the case today, and if anything China’s economic star is on the wane – they don’t even make their own shoes anymore, they are made in Vietnam.

Going to the Moon won’t change that, and since many of China’s industries are government supported, spending prodigious amounts of capital on a Moon venture will suck that money out of the industries that need reinvestment to compete – it will make their competitive situation even worse.

Besides, if the U.S. wants to beat “someone” back to the Moon, all they have to do it put the requirement out for bid, and some coalition of U.S. companies will be able to do it for a fraction of the price China or the U.S. Government could do it. And having a U.S. company do it, as opposed to a government, really shows off how capable our industry is compared to everyone else – that our companies can do what only other governments struggle to do. That is a powerful statement, not a Chinese redux of Apollo.

Yet not long ago on this forum you were all but certain the PRC had no lunar aspirations a’tall. Of course, it’s not so much an ‘Apollo redux’ in work but affixing the PRC hallmark on this century as theirs. And, of course, half the people alive today were not around for Apollo and those who were are aging and passing on. It is difficult for the average anyone around the world to find Mars in the night sky; hard for the common anybody to glimpse the ISS at dusk as well. But everybody, everywhere can easily find and see Luna, day or night.

And as the PRC knows, jusr as Americans did nearly half a century ago, it makes for a stellar projection of political power and economic strength on Earth, to demontrate to those alive worldwide that the moon passing over and above you, shining down month after month, has your people at work there in the here and now, representing your values and power, for years to come. The PRC knows this. And Luna awaits fresh flags and footprits, televised on large flat-screen HDTVs, made in China, of course.

That’s fairly impressive if you think about it.

China has its own internal demand for civilian and defense satellites. They intend to satisfy those needs internally.

They also hope to gain world level abilities to providing the civilian services to other countries. The launch costs of the Long March 5 are critical in their ability to provide satellite and launch turn-key packages.

Although much of the Chinese investment in infrastructure seems well planned, including an impressive if not flawless high-speed rail network, the problems with air pollution due to coal and cars, and traffic jams around major cities, will be difficult to overcome and will get worse before they get better.

The heavy ELV currently under development, the Long March 5, appears intended for both manned and unmanned payloads and seems considerably less expensive and more practical than the Shuttle.

While I agree Chinese human spaceflight has proceeded at a deliberate pace, they have made remarkable progress in only four manned flights.

For hi-tech you need high quality staff. For which you have to pay. Wage inflation in China is at epic levels.

Missed the bit where Apple are setting up a factory in the US?

Which is precisely why commercial HSF has to be purged from all government funding and subsidies and forced to seek full financing in the private capital markets.>>

Fortunately that has not been the viewpoint throughout most of the history of the US, if it had been we would not be the great nation we are today. No settling of west for instance…RGO