“He wanted a photo op just as he did with Obama at the Cape.”

At least Musk has something of value to space exploration to show people when he has his picture taken with astronauts.

How many pictures do you have with astronauts, where all you were was part of the press?

Then you need glasses. He wanted a photo op just as he did with Obama at the Cape.

“Its strange to find you as ATK’s last apologist, attempting to indict the whole of the US space sector.”

I’m no fan of the Shuttle SRM’s, as I think they were promoted politically, not for their technical strengths (or lack thereof).

But you see far more evil in ATK than I do, and I have worked for many government contractors. Part of the blame you assign to them was also the responsibility of the their customers, or politicians. And while they no doubt had some influence with politicians, they compete in the halls of Congress with other better funded corporations. They are no better or worse than any other large company.

“How many engineers participated in DIRECT, and what lengths did they go to to conceal their identities?”

I came to Space Politics as a DIRECT supporter, since I liked the idea of reusing existing technologies. However I received great feedback from many people about the cost issues with legacy hardware, and that is why I changed my opinion (and why I know what the Shuttle costs were).

I understand why people thought DIRECT was a good idea, and interestingly enough, they were at odds with Michael Griffin, who did more to support ATK than DIRECT people did. You are barking up the wrong tree.

“ATK not only did not deliver on Ares 1, they could not due to the laws of physics.”

That blame rests solely on the shoulders of Michael Griffin, not ATK.

“Now you might not want to see SpaceX have competition, but I do.”

I am on record, on many forums, as saying we need competitive and redundant access to space, and that I hope ULA can become competitive once again.

“What I want to see is the NextGen booster competition started before Obama leaves office.”

I want to see the SLS program defunded so we don’t have to worry about the Advanced Booster Competition.

While there are many who wish it were not true, my “perspective” is known to be pretty accurate. It focuses on key issues.

Now you might not want to see SpaceX have competition, but I do.

Your focus on some nominal dollar ammounts and standard corporate bahavior is disengenious, as it diverts attention from a long long history of poliical engineering by ATK.

ATK not only did not deliver on Ares 1, they could not due to the laws of physics.

What I want to see is the NextGen booster competition started before Obama leaves office.

I want to see ULA with Marshall’s help well on its way to providing SpaceX with competition.

Why, to combat the spread of misinformation, advocate for better HSF policy, and educate laypersons(such as myself) about the benefits and drawbacks of competing initiatives, of course!

Sure, if your goal is to convert your opponents, I’d agree the efforts are likely futile, but you can do quite a bit of good if your desire is to influence the opinions of more… reasonable folks. As a long time “lurker” of this forum, I’ve learned much from the ideological back and forth that might seem pointless to those involved. It would be a shame to see that discourse lessened in the future…

I realize this reply is likely far too late for Mr. Boozer to see himself. Just my $.02, FWIW…

Its strange to find you as ATK’s last apologist, attempting to indict the whole of the US space sector.

Or maybe its not so strange.

If you want to apologize for ATK, well, Boeing and LockMart both know who held control. It is true they cooperated,
but it was not that they had much choice.

How many engineers participated in DIRECT, and what lengths did they go to to conceal their identities?

Your comparison of firms is not valid. While their costs are high, Boeing and LockMart delivered. ATK did not, and could not from the start.

My own time and the resources here prevent me from walking you from 1969 through ATK’s response to Challenger under Reagan. The multiple launch studies over the years and their fates. ATK’s role in X33, and now this mess.

I think there is a book in there waiting to be written…

Right?

“The engines won’t have a chance unless they are recovered somehow in a new core stage system that can be recovered or reused somehow. That is the harsh metric that almost to an individual here you just don’t get.”

I get it, and got it a long long time ago. From my point of view, what both of you can not see is the reason why the US launch industry stagnated for 40 years: ATK.

The SLS boosters are aupposed to be re-competed, but that is in 2017, if I remember correctly. If the US continues wasting money on large solid grains, then we will loose the international competitive race.

Now you all can stand around in a circle and shoot each other, or you can figure out how to bring about the better future.

Why do you think that other nations will not simply duplicate SpaceX’s technology, and offer it at lower cost?

While Musk chose powered descent, I am not sure that that is the cheapest or most reliable technology for fly back re-use.