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	<title>Comments on: OIG report warns of Orion cost and schedule risks</title>
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	<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks</link>
	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-423152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[matthew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Aug 2013 18:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-423152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Itâ€™s proper time to develop plans for the future and itâ€™s time and energy to be happy. We have read this publish and if I really could I want to propose you few interesting points or ideas. Maybe you may write following articles speaking about this article. I wish to read more reasons for it!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Itâ€™s proper time to develop plans for the future and itâ€™s time and energy to be happy. We have read this publish and if I really could I want to propose you few interesting points or ideas. Maybe you may write following articles speaking about this article. I wish to read more reasons for it!</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-423098</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Aug 2013 04:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-423098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Neil Shipley said:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Point is they have a strategy beyond rad-hardened equipment and the associated cost. It also tied them to an outside supplier which they donâ€™t like.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Another example of how SpaceX chooses innovative solutions.  Instead of making their hardware less likely to fail, they make their hardware more able to recover from failure.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_14_2012_p04-01-495053.xml&quot; title=&quot;Supply Chain Seen Slowing NASA Capsule, Rocket Development&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This article from Aviation Week&lt;/a&gt; talks about the supply chain problems NASA is having with radiation hardened electronics for the SLS and Orion - yet more reason they won&#039;t be able to keep to schedule (or budget).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil Shipley said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Point is they have a strategy beyond rad-hardened equipment and the associated cost. It also tied them to an outside supplier which they donâ€™t like.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Another example of how SpaceX chooses innovative solutions.  Instead of making their hardware less likely to fail, they make their hardware more able to recover from failure.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/asd_09_14_2012_p04-01-495053.xml" title="Supply Chain Seen Slowing NASA Capsule, Rocket Development" rel="nofollow">This article from Aviation Week</a> talks about the supply chain problems NASA is having with radiation hardened electronics for the SLS and Orion &#8211; yet more reason they won&#8217;t be able to keep to schedule (or budget).</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Shipley</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-423088</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Shipley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Aug 2013 01:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-423088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SpaceX doesn&#039;t use rad-hardened equipment.  They&#039;ve chosen the multiple redundancy route which was proven successful in the COTS 2/3 mission where they lost one of their computers but pressed on with the other 2.  They had a choice of re-synch&#039;ing the hit one but chose not to at that point as it would have held up docking.
Point is they have a strategy beyond rad-hardened equipment and the associated cost.  It also tied them to an outside supplier which they don&#039;t like.
Cheers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SpaceX doesn&#8217;t use rad-hardened equipment.  They&#8217;ve chosen the multiple redundancy route which was proven successful in the COTS 2/3 mission where they lost one of their computers but pressed on with the other 2.  They had a choice of re-synch&#8217;ing the hit one but chose not to at that point as it would have held up docking.<br />
Point is they have a strategy beyond rad-hardened equipment and the associated cost.  It also tied them to an outside supplier which they don&#8217;t like.<br />
Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-423069</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-423069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PICA-X is a proprietary material of SpaceX, not available for use by 
NASA. It is also almost identical to PICA, a material developed by NASA around the same time as AVCOAT.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PICA-X is a proprietary material of SpaceX, not available for use by<br />
NASA. It is also almost identical to PICA, a material developed by NASA around the same time as AVCOAT.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Shipley</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-423031</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Shipley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Aug 2013 05:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-423031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely agree.  SpaceX are also working up their design for their MCT which rumour has it stands for Mars Colonial Transport or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely agree.  SpaceX are also working up their design for their MCT which rumour has it stands for Mars Colonial Transport or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-423001</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-423001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt McClanahan said:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;A manned Mars-bound Dragon will require several capabilities which are of no use in LEO.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

If you think of space exploration in the mode of Apollo, then you would be right.  But that is not the way we will be leaving the vicinity of Earth - not in capsules.  Haven&#039;t you learned anything from the 12+ years we&#039;ve occupied space on the ISS?

The primary task for a capsule is to safely return it&#039;s cargo back to the surface of a planet with an atmosphere.  Traveling between planets is not it&#039;s primary function, although it could be pressed into service as a lifeboat, but even then it&#039;s far heavier and smaller than purpose-built space-only lifeboats would be.

Bottom line here is that you have to stop thinking that the Orion/MPCV is going to be used as the primary vehicle for going anywhere, and because of that the same goes for other capsules like the Dragon.  The Dragon could be brought along on the trip to Mars for use for we reach Mars and want to land somewhere, but it won&#039;t be used during the trip, and won&#039;t need any of the items you listed.

&quot;&lt;i&gt;If SpaceX really was developing the current crewed Dragon iteration to be capable of going to Mars, theyâ€™d be wasting a great deal of time and resources.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Apparently you have missed the whole point of what SpaceX does.  They start simple, learn their lessons, apply them, and then evolve based on what they learned.  To assume that the crew-version of the Dragon they are working on for Commercial Crew is the version they would take to Mars is a little myopic, don&#039;t you think?  According the Inspiration Mars they think it could go, but that doesn&#039;t mean that Musk isn&#039;t going to be evolving the design between now and when he finally sends hardware to Mars.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt McClanahan said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>A manned Mars-bound Dragon will require several capabilities which are of no use in LEO.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>If you think of space exploration in the mode of Apollo, then you would be right.  But that is not the way we will be leaving the vicinity of Earth &#8211; not in capsules.  Haven&#8217;t you learned anything from the 12+ years we&#8217;ve occupied space on the ISS?</p>
<p>The primary task for a capsule is to safely return it&#8217;s cargo back to the surface of a planet with an atmosphere.  Traveling between planets is not it&#8217;s primary function, although it could be pressed into service as a lifeboat, but even then it&#8217;s far heavier and smaller than purpose-built space-only lifeboats would be.</p>
<p>Bottom line here is that you have to stop thinking that the Orion/MPCV is going to be used as the primary vehicle for going anywhere, and because of that the same goes for other capsules like the Dragon.  The Dragon could be brought along on the trip to Mars for use for we reach Mars and want to land somewhere, but it won&#8217;t be used during the trip, and won&#8217;t need any of the items you listed.</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>If SpaceX really was developing the current crewed Dragon iteration to be capable of going to Mars, theyâ€™d be wasting a great deal of time and resources.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Apparently you have missed the whole point of what SpaceX does.  They start simple, learn their lessons, apply them, and then evolve based on what they learned.  To assume that the crew-version of the Dragon they are working on for Commercial Crew is the version they would take to Mars is a little myopic, don&#8217;t you think?  According the Inspiration Mars they think it could go, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that Musk isn&#8217;t going to be evolving the design between now and when he finally sends hardware to Mars.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-423000</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-423000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt McClanahan said:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;...since the Shuttle was an LEO craft only, and Orion is specifically for BEO missions.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Yet really, if you look at what NASA is spending, NASA is only building the capsule itself, not any of the hardware that makes the Orion BEO capable.  The Service Module is being built - and funded - by ESA.

So $16B for a capsule that can only keep it&#039;s passengers alive for the short trip back to the surface of the Earth - but not alive during any stay in space.

And you don&#039;t think the Orion/MPCV is hideously expensive?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt McClanahan said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>&#8230;since the Shuttle was an LEO craft only, and Orion is specifically for BEO missions.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Yet really, if you look at what NASA is spending, NASA is only building the capsule itself, not any of the hardware that makes the Orion BEO capable.  The Service Module is being built &#8211; and funded &#8211; by ESA.</p>
<p>So $16B for a capsule that can only keep it&#8217;s passengers alive for the short trip back to the surface of the Earth &#8211; but not alive during any stay in space.</p>
<p>And you don&#8217;t think the Orion/MPCV is hideously expensive?</p>
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		<title>By: A_M_Swallow</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-422977</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A_M_Swallow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Aug 2013 03:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-422977</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most of the additional features for the Mars trip including long range comms can be put in a mission module.  Dragon will however need radiation hard computers to survive trips to Mars or even lunar orbit.

The grappling pin may be useful if there is a Mars spacestation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the additional features for the Mars trip including long range comms can be put in a mission module.  Dragon will however need radiation hard computers to survive trips to Mars or even lunar orbit.</p>
<p>The grappling pin may be useful if there is a Mars spacestation.</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-422948</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-422948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt; If Orion ever is used for an LEO mission (such as going to the station), it will be a staggering waste of money.&lt;/em&gt;

The last eight words are true even without the preliminary clause.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em> If Orion ever is used for an LEO mission (such as going to the station), it will be a staggering waste of money.</em></p>
<p>The last eight words are true even without the preliminary clause.</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2013/08/15/oig-report-warns-of-orion-cost-and-schedule-risks/#comment-422947</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rand Simberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Aug 2013 16:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6554#comment-422947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;you are better than that Wind.&lt;/em&gt;

Where is the evidence for that assertion?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>you are better than that Wind.</em></p>
<p>Where is the evidence for that assertion?</p>
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