http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20140105/OPINION/301050009/Letter-Moon-Been-there-done-that

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20140102/columnists0205/301020001/guest-column-u-s-can-still-beat-china-back-moon

Apparently he didn’t get the message that we were on the Moon 44 years ago.

“I simply cannot see any plausible scenario where USA gov will fund Mars manned mission while ignoring manned Moon.”

We didn’t go to the Moon originally because we wanted to explore the Moon, but because of the Cold War. And we haven’t returned to the Moon in the successive 40 years because we haven’t found a reason that is worth the massive cost it takes to go back to the Moon in a bigger way. The ROI hasn’t been there.

Now maybe you think that some future U.S. Government will find an ROI big enough to spend money on returning to the Moon, but unless we find aliens or some new fuel source I don’t see that happening. The threat of China or Zimbabwe landing people on the Moon is not going to be enough either.

As to Mars, remember that I don’t think either the “Moon First” or “Mars First” groups will be able to convince the U.S. Government to fund their dreams. And as of today NASA doesn’t get enough money to get to Mars on it’s own, so unless the NASA budget is increased by a massive amount, it will NEVER be able to get to the Moon or Mars.

The only way I see humans from the U.S. getting back to the Moon and eventually reaching Mars is through international partnerships and/or through public/private partnerships, where the U.S. Government decides it is in their interests to have a hand in pushing out the frontiers of space, but they don’t want to have to bear the full load of funding it.

If that happens the Moon is the likely first place to be reached, but it won’t have a lot of funding from the U.S. Government, and likely that funding will disappear or be severely reduced after a while. The government will also contribute to a Mars effort, but again it won’t be a lot. Why? There still won’t be an ROI big enough to keep up the sustained funding.

My $0.02

“So based on that I’m not sure we have anything to continue with”
One simple thing. I do not think USA goverment will just ignore Moon operations conducted by other entities, both govermental and commercial. You guys did not yet declined that much to be like old China – to ignore what is happening around. And someone inclined to ignore Moon will ignore Mars too.

So even under your “First” definition “Mars First” has no chance. This is my bet: USA goverment WILL fund going back to Moon before going to Mars (in fact, decades before).

That’s all. You can disagree with me, but I think my justification is sound. I simply cannot see any plausible scenario where USA gov will fund Mars manned mission while ignoring manned Moon.

“It’s not fear to me,your partially right that I will take any carrot that makes us decide to go back to the moon, does not matter whether it is china, it just simply the step I believe in”

Look, what you do with your own money is up to you. If you want to donate your entire fortune to a private company that is trying to put humans back on the Moon, then I wish you all the best.

But this China-mongering that you have been engaged in is for the purpose of spending MY TAX MONEY to send humans back to the Moon for a made up reason. A FAKE REASON.

So just as you’ll take any carrot to get your way, you shouldn’t be surprised when people see through your superficial reasons and knock them down.

This is serious stuff here Scott. If you can’t articulate a clear ROI for tax dollars to be spent, and no one else has been able to either in all these years we’ve been talking about this, then you should seriously consider the fact that THERE IS NOT REASON for the U.S. Taxpayer to send humans back to the place we’ve already been. Would it be neat? Sure. Does it rise to level of Nation Imperative like the Apollo program was part of? No.

I think you would be better off throwing your support behind private efforts like Golden Spike, and supporting the creation of more public/private partnerships between NASA and the private sector to create new space-related services.

And stop your fake effort to stir up fears in people – who are you trying to emulate, Roger Ailes?

From what I can see China is not doing anything new or particularly challenging, and where they are doing it is not in any place that the U.S. has determined was of particular interest to the U.S.

Scott and others just want to use China’s activities as an excuse to funnel more money into NASA so NASA can send humans back to the Moon. What that will solve is still left up to the imagination of those that propose this response, but apparently it is supposed to alleviate some form of “fear”.

Having grown up in the age where nuclear bombs could come raining down on us at any moment, I just don’t understand the fear I’m supposed to have by China sending a little rover to the Moon. That kind of fear seems irrational to me.

China is putting the finishing touches on their deep sea submersible Jiaolong that will soon take their people to the bottom of the Marianas Trench. Our U.S. Navy sent people there in 1960 and, as a nation, we never sent anyone back. Nope, we never set up a base down there, and nope, we see no reason to do so. James Cameron, of course, took his Deepsea Challenger down there, which I guess is somewhat the undersea equivalent of Moon Express and Golden Spike. It’s another world, down there. Like the Moon, it is isolated, exquisitely desolate, and many would say boring. Cameron’s long awaited photos are real yawners. Jialong will actually be mobile along the ocean floor (it’s sort of a rover!), unlike the others, so it will do exploration in a way the others could not. Well, they won’t quite have “boots in the mud”, but close to that.

So we’d better get kicking, or else we’re going to be playing “catch up”. We need a national mandate to return to the deepest place on the globe so we can give a few more of us a sense of solitude and wonder and isolation from humanity. They will be there and we will not. Horrors!

Of course, the best way to avoid being “beaten” by the Chinese is to join them. But, unlike most other countries, our nation can’t digest the prospect of partnering with a communist nation that tramples on human rights. That’s why our partnership with the Soviet Union on ISS turned out to be so indigestible. Um, didn’t it?

“I was referring to the Chang 5 mission, at which time we will debate this again…”

Oh my gosh, they are bringing back 2 kilograms of lunar soil and rock samples – WE ARE SO SCREWED!!!

Is that the reaction you’re hoping to hear?

What exactly are we supposed to be so concerned about? That they are landing another robotic explorer on the Moon? That they are bringing back a small sample? Didn’t we do both of those things back in the 60’s?

“And if a decision is not made at that point to return to the moon then China will most likely have the next boots on the ground…”

Hey, if they want to spend money to send people to the Moon, so what? A handful, a dozen, a hundred – what are they supposed to be doing that is making you so scared? Why the fear?

“So catch up is refering to that….. Ie they will be there and we will not”

No, they will still be behind, because only when they land humans on the Moon will they understand why we have moved on to focusing on Mars.

Maybe this will make you more paranoid, but there is an article on Wired today titled “China’s Deep Sea Ambitions” that I thought had a relevant perspective on space related stuff with China:

“And while Plan 863 indicates a formal commitment to oceanographic exploration, China’s movement has been measured and deliberate, similar to its spacefaring progress. With all the fanfare surrounding the country’s entry into manned spaceflight, it’s important to maintain historical perspective. In the decade since it became the third country to put a man in space, China has completed four flights; the bulk of the Space Race, from Gagarin to Armstrong, happened in less time.“