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	<title>Comments on: New year, old issues</title>
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	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-449066</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2014 15:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-449066</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[amightywind said:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;One of the worst aspects of Obamaâ€™s Socialism is cronyism, of which the commercial crew program reeks.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

As Inigo Montoya would say:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

The Commercial Crew program was competitively bid and open to any qualified participants.  Losers even had the ability to protest the awards, and no one did.  Why is that?

On the flip side though, the SLS and MPCV programs were mandated by Congress to use the same contractors - no competitive bids.

So what better fits the definition of cronyism, a competitively bid program or one that was mandated by politicians to use specific technologies and contractors?

Face it Bub, the SLS program is the one reeking of cronyism here, and you know it.  And because that appears to be one of your definitions of socialism, then apparently the Republican&#039;s are socialists for supporting the SLS.  How ironic, huh?  ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amightywind said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>One of the worst aspects of Obamaâ€™s Socialism is cronyism, of which the commercial crew program reeks.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>As Inigo Montoya would say:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>The Commercial Crew program was competitively bid and open to any qualified participants.  Losers even had the ability to protest the awards, and no one did.  Why is that?</p>
<p>On the flip side though, the SLS and MPCV programs were mandated by Congress to use the same contractors &#8211; no competitive bids.</p>
<p>So what better fits the definition of cronyism, a competitively bid program or one that was mandated by politicians to use specific technologies and contractors?</p>
<p>Face it Bub, the SLS program is the one reeking of cronyism here, and you know it.  And because that appears to be one of your definitions of socialism, then apparently the Republican&#8217;s are socialists for supporting the SLS.  How ironic, huh?  <img src="http://www.spacepolitics.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
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		<title>By: amightywind</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-449001</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[amightywind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2014 13:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-449001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;so, adding in a mess of pork, the Republicans are for a Socialist space program and against a free market. It certainly is curious!&lt;/cite&gt;

One of the worst aspects of Obama&#039;s Socialism is cronyism, of which the commercial crew program reeks.

&lt;cite&gt;If it succeeds â€” and I think in some form that it will&lt;/cite&gt;

We look forward to the dems running on this in 2014.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>so, adding in a mess of pork, the Republicans are for a Socialist space program and against a free market. It certainly is curious!</cite></p>
<p>One of the worst aspects of Obama&#8217;s Socialism is cronyism, of which the commercial crew program reeks.</p>
<p><cite>If it succeeds â€” and I think in some form that it will</cite></p>
<p>We look forward to the dems running on this in 2014.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-448717</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2014 02:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-448717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unfortunately, House Republicans don&#039;t really care whether something makes sense -- if they can use it to entangle Mr. Obama, it&#039;s good.  Mr. Obama is for privatizing spaceflight and killing Socialist spaceflight -- probably for the wrong reasons, but the right policies -- so, adding in a mess of pork, the Republicans are for a Socialist space program and against a free market.  It certainly is curious!

Don&#039;t forget, Obamacare started out as a Republican plan, and only became evil incarnate when Obama started pushing it.  (BTW, I think the Republicans made a serious strategic error when they called their own plan &quot;Obamacare.&quot;  If it succeeds -- and I think in some form that it will -- a hundred years from now it will still be called Obamacare.  It&#039;s as if Social Security today were called Roosevelt Security.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, House Republicans don&#8217;t really care whether something makes sense &#8212; if they can use it to entangle Mr. Obama, it&#8217;s good.  Mr. Obama is for privatizing spaceflight and killing Socialist spaceflight &#8212; probably for the wrong reasons, but the right policies &#8212; so, adding in a mess of pork, the Republicans are for a Socialist space program and against a free market.  It certainly is curious!</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget, Obamacare started out as a Republican plan, and only became evil incarnate when Obama started pushing it.  (BTW, I think the Republicans made a serious strategic error when they called their own plan &#8220;Obamacare.&#8221;  If it succeeds &#8212; and I think in some form that it will &#8212; a hundred years from now it will still be called Obamacare.  It&#8217;s as if Social Security today were called Roosevelt Security.)</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-448703</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2014 01:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-448703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson said:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;If these funds could make SLS available, say, a year earlier for the asteroid retrieval, why not spend them?&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Because, oddly enough, the House also wants to make it illegal to do any work on an asteroid retrieval program.

So they want a heavy lifter, but they have no interest in possible uses for one.

Curiouser and curiouser...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donald F. Robertson said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>If these funds could make SLS available, say, a year earlier for the asteroid retrieval, why not spend them?</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Because, oddly enough, the House also wants to make it illegal to do any work on an asteroid retrieval program.</p>
<p>So they want a heavy lifter, but they have no interest in possible uses for one.</p>
<p>Curiouser and curiouser&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Donald F. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-448694</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald F. Robertson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2014 00:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-448694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I consider the SLS a complete waste of money, and of the other three projects Orion has some limited merit, the JWST great merit (even though I think it&#039;s the one on the riskiest political footing), and the ISS is an essential market for SpaceX, OSC, Sierra Nevada, et al.  With the possible exception of the Web, the chances of any of these getting killed in today&#039;s political environment is nill.  If so, why sustain the lost opportunity costs of retaining the termination fees?  If these funds could make SLS available, say, a year earlier for the asteroid retrieval, why not spend them?  I would feel (very) differently if there were any chance SLS would disappear, but, alas, I&#039;m afraid there isn&#039;t.

-- Donald]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I consider the SLS a complete waste of money, and of the other three projects Orion has some limited merit, the JWST great merit (even though I think it&#8217;s the one on the riskiest political footing), and the ISS is an essential market for SpaceX, OSC, Sierra Nevada, et al.  With the possible exception of the Web, the chances of any of these getting killed in today&#8217;s political environment is nill.  If so, why sustain the lost opportunity costs of retaining the termination fees?  If these funds could make SLS available, say, a year earlier for the asteroid retrieval, why not spend them?  I would feel (very) differently if there were any chance SLS would disappear, but, alas, I&#8217;m afraid there isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>&#8212; Donald</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Willett</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-448693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fred Willett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jan 2014 00:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-448693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To me it seems that when the congress seeks to enact legislation forbidding the setting aside of termination monies they are seeking to lock in permanently the &quot;old&quot; way of doing space. 
NASA must keep on doing SLS/MPCV regardless.
Meanwhile, around them, the space landscape is changing slowly but relentlessly.
SpaceX has begun work on a big methane engine. Most of the big rocket fans think this is for a Falcon X rocket which will make SLS look quaint. Maybe, eventually, but personally I think its real use is for 2nd stage reusability. The biggest 2nd stage that Falcon Heavy can carry. Such a stage will give heaps of margin for 2nd stage reusability, and that&#039;s the real way to the future for spaceflight. 
Reusability means cheap. Reusability means a burgeoning demand for spaceflight that will push Musk to Mars before you or I can blink.
The fact that such a big methane powered 2nd stage on FH would push FH past SLS&#039;s 70t lift capacity is beside the point. The goal isn&#039;t sheer volume. It&#039;s cost.
At $1B a launch SLS is never going to do anything useful.
A really low cost launch service - even if the net payload is only 10t a launch - will open space to real development.
Unfortunately Congress doesn&#039;t see that. They are only interested in protecting their pork.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me it seems that when the congress seeks to enact legislation forbidding the setting aside of termination monies they are seeking to lock in permanently the &#8220;old&#8221; way of doing space.<br />
NASA must keep on doing SLS/MPCV regardless.<br />
Meanwhile, around them, the space landscape is changing slowly but relentlessly.<br />
SpaceX has begun work on a big methane engine. Most of the big rocket fans think this is for a Falcon X rocket which will make SLS look quaint. Maybe, eventually, but personally I think its real use is for 2nd stage reusability. The biggest 2nd stage that Falcon Heavy can carry. Such a stage will give heaps of margin for 2nd stage reusability, and that&#8217;s the real way to the future for spaceflight.<br />
Reusability means cheap. Reusability means a burgeoning demand for spaceflight that will push Musk to Mars before you or I can blink.<br />
The fact that such a big methane powered 2nd stage on FH would push FH past SLS&#8217;s 70t lift capacity is beside the point. The goal isn&#8217;t sheer volume. It&#8217;s cost.<br />
At $1B a launch SLS is never going to do anything useful.<br />
A really low cost launch service &#8211; even if the net payload is only 10t a launch &#8211; will open space to real development.<br />
Unfortunately Congress doesn&#8217;t see that. They are only interested in protecting their pork.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-448671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2014 22:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-448671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So let&#039;s see:

1.  The Republican House wants to cut NASA&#039;s budget, and make it illegal to plan a mission that was only proposed so the SLS and MPCV would have something to do to merit the $Billions being spent on them.  Unfortunately there still is no known need for them.

2.  The Republican House also wants to suspend common sense rules about program termination costs, and suspend common sense oversight of expensive programs that have no known need (i.e. Pork).

Now I&#039;m not saying that Democrats are waiting in the wings to spend lavishly on NASA - they are not.  But I just wanted to point out that Republican&#039;s are not the saviors for NASA that some people think they are.  And that won&#039;t change with a Republican President, especially from the group that ran in 2012 not named Newt.

NASA continues to be a source of funding for certain states and districts regardless what result that funding has, and until a more understandable goal for NASA is agreed upon for all concerned parties, NASA will continue to meander along without any prospect of getting much done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So let&#8217;s see:</p>
<p>1.  The Republican House wants to cut NASA&#8217;s budget, and make it illegal to plan a mission that was only proposed so the SLS and MPCV would have something to do to merit the $Billions being spent on them.  Unfortunately there still is no known need for them.</p>
<p>2.  The Republican House also wants to suspend common sense rules about program termination costs, and suspend common sense oversight of expensive programs that have no known need (i.e. Pork).</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m not saying that Democrats are waiting in the wings to spend lavishly on NASA &#8211; they are not.  But I just wanted to point out that Republican&#8217;s are not the saviors for NASA that some people think they are.  And that won&#8217;t change with a Republican President, especially from the group that ran in 2012 not named Newt.</p>
<p>NASA continues to be a source of funding for certain states and districts regardless what result that funding has, and until a more understandable goal for NASA is agreed upon for all concerned parties, NASA will continue to meander along without any prospect of getting much done.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-448665</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2014 22:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-448665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[amightywind said:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;A down select for commercial crew is essential to accelerate the glacial pace of that program.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Glacial pace?

The Orion/MPCV has been an active program since 2005 and isn&#039;t forecasted to fly with humans until 2021 - 16 YEARS AFTER PROGRAM START.

Compare that to the Commercial Crew program, which gets a fraction of the budget that the Orion/MPCV does.  The initial contract was awarded in 2010, and we could have two different spacecraft designs flying crew by 2017 - 7 YEARS AFTER PROGRAM START.

Any normal person would laugh at your comment when presented with these facts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>amightywind said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>A down select for commercial crew is essential to accelerate the glacial pace of that program.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Glacial pace?</p>
<p>The Orion/MPCV has been an active program since 2005 and isn&#8217;t forecasted to fly with humans until 2021 &#8211; 16 YEARS AFTER PROGRAM START.</p>
<p>Compare that to the Commercial Crew program, which gets a fraction of the budget that the Orion/MPCV does.  The initial contract was awarded in 2010, and we could have two different spacecraft designs flying crew by 2017 &#8211; 7 YEARS AFTER PROGRAM START.</p>
<p>Any normal person would laugh at your comment when presented with these facts.</p>
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		<title>By: amightywind</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/01/02/new-year-old-issues/#comment-448624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[amightywind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2014 19:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=6789#comment-448624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A down select for commercial crew is essential to accelerate the glacial pace of that program. There may be no mission for it after 2020. The asteroid lasso mission must be stonewalled at any cost. It is a nutty idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A down select for commercial crew is essential to accelerate the glacial pace of that program. There may be no mission for it after 2020. The asteroid lasso mission must be stonewalled at any cost. It is a nutty idea.</p>
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