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	<title>Comments on: SpaceX files suit over EELV block buy contract</title>
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	<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract</link>
	<description>Because sometimes the most important orbit is the Beltway...</description>
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		<title>By: DCSCA</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481370</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DCSCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2014 22:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[=yawn=  Except it hasn&#039;t. HYour own posting reveals nothing has chenged.  You might as well acccept the remainder of the Obama years as free drift and muddling along with space policy. Twitching over how and why to go in circles, no where, fast is the make work for the next few years. Orion is on track to fly by year&#039;s end. And Musk has started a new liquor company: &#039;Whine&#039; in his relentless pursuit for gov&#039;t financing fofr a &#039;private&#039; firm. You want street cred, take the risk and fly somebody. Until then, the Obama years are Carteresque wen it comes to space policy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>=yawn=  Except it hasn&#8217;t. HYour own posting reveals nothing has chenged.  You might as well acccept the remainder of the Obama years as free drift and muddling along with space policy. Twitching over how and why to go in circles, no where, fast is the make work for the next few years. Orion is on track to fly by year&#8217;s end. And Musk has started a new liquor company: &#8216;Whine&#8217; in his relentless pursuit for gov&#8217;t financing fofr a &#8216;private&#8217; firm. You want street cred, take the risk and fly somebody. Until then, the Obama years are Carteresque wen it comes to space policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi E.P.  

Given that the savings by going to SpaceX instead of ULA for the 60% of launches they can currently accommodate amount, well let&#039;s see:
SpaceX, say $100 million (add 10% to Elon&#039;s figure just for the hell of it and round up) compared to ULA of what $460 million which is say around $2.4 billion for say 15 launches.  Marginal savings per launch of $360 million. 
That&#039;s quite a savings. 

Then there&#039;s the seven that have been apparently allocated for competitive tender with savings of another $2.5 million if they all go to SpaceX. 

Shucks, that&#039;s about $5 billion savings over ULA.
Even if we increase SpaceX prices a bit and decrease ULA&#039;s we still end up with considerable savings by using SpaceX.

These numbers are mindblowing and it&#039;s no wonder every launch company in the world is starting to get concerned.

Then there&#039;s the hairy topic of reusability.  If SpaceX pull it off only for their first stage and prove up reliability, the impacts are going to be more than considerable.  It would seem that SpaceX is going to sew up the commercial market completely, particularly if they manage to get FH up and running even in expendable form.

I&#039;m sure that cancellation wouldn&#039;t cost anywhere near those savings but happy to stand corrected.

Agreed, timing is, as they say, everything.

Interesting times.  I await the outcome of this with considerable interest and in the meantime there is the continuing launch and test program of reusable SpaceX boosters as they continue to progress their launch manifest.

Cheers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi E.P.  </p>
<p>Given that the savings by going to SpaceX instead of ULA for the 60% of launches they can currently accommodate amount, well let&#8217;s see:<br />
SpaceX, say $100 million (add 10% to Elon&#8217;s figure just for the hell of it and round up) compared to ULA of what $460 million which is say around $2.4 billion for say 15 launches.  Marginal savings per launch of $360 million.<br />
That&#8217;s quite a savings. </p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the seven that have been apparently allocated for competitive tender with savings of another $2.5 million if they all go to SpaceX. </p>
<p>Shucks, that&#8217;s about $5 billion savings over ULA.<br />
Even if we increase SpaceX prices a bit and decrease ULA&#8217;s we still end up with considerable savings by using SpaceX.</p>
<p>These numbers are mindblowing and it&#8217;s no wonder every launch company in the world is starting to get concerned.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the hairy topic of reusability.  If SpaceX pull it off only for their first stage and prove up reliability, the impacts are going to be more than considerable.  It would seem that SpaceX is going to sew up the commercial market completely, particularly if they manage to get FH up and running even in expendable form.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that cancellation wouldn&#8217;t cost anywhere near those savings but happy to stand corrected.</p>
<p>Agreed, timing is, as they say, everything.</p>
<p>Interesting times.  I await the outcome of this with considerable interest and in the meantime there is the continuing launch and test program of reusable SpaceX boosters as they continue to progress their launch manifest.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481136</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481136</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No that&#039;s an exaggeration.  $370 million was the official contract termination payment.  The billions apparently refer to issues concerning sub-contractors lost business, etc. not the basic contract.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No that&#8217;s an exaggeration.  $370 million was the official contract termination payment.  The billions apparently refer to issues concerning sub-contractors lost business, etc. not the basic contract.</p>
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		<title>By: Bennett In Vermont</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481108</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bennett In Vermont]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 10:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ever the clown.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ever the clown.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kent</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481071</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Kent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 04:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481071</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You mean the STP / Falconsat launch on 09 Mar 2007?  Nothing unusual that I&#039;m aware of.  Yes, I consider it successful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean the STP / Falconsat launch on 09 Mar 2007?  Nothing unusual that I&#8217;m aware of.  Yes, I consider it successful.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481049</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 01:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael Kent said:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;Thatâ€™s pretty impressive considering itâ€™s only flown nine times.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

I was using Ad Astra&#039;s figures, so talk to him about it.

But just out of curiosity, what happened on the 9th Atlas V flight?  Was it successful?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Kent said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>Thatâ€™s pretty impressive considering itâ€™s only flown nine times.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>I was using Ad Astra&#8217;s figures, so talk to him about it.</p>
<p>But just out of curiosity, what happened on the 9th Atlas V flight?  Was it successful?</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481048</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 01:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481048</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;&lt;i&gt;Youâ€™re the legal person...&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

My apologies - I was confusing you with Michael Listner.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;<i>Youâ€™re the legal person&#8230;</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>My apologies &#8211; I was confusing you with Michael Listner.</p>
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		<title>By: Coastal Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481047</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Coastal Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 01:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael Kent said:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;The last time he sued to have the courts force the Air Force to give him EELV launches was in 2005...&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

No, SpaceX did not sue the Air Force (i.e. U.S. Government), they sued Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

Specifically, &quot;&lt;i&gt;In court documents filed Oct. 19 [2005], SpaceX is suing Boeing and Lockheed Martin &quot;for violations of antitrust, unfair competition and racketeering laws.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

You&#039;re the legal person - how does that change your assumptions now?

&quot;&lt;i&gt;The point is, defense contracts are awarded based on demonstrated contractor ability, not on the promises of its CEO.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

So let&#039;s start with the fact that SpaceX has already demonstrated the minimum needed to qualify for consideration by the Air Force, which is three successful launches (the paperwork certification just confirms the qualification).

That being the case, it&#039;s quite easy for the Air Force to validate his claim - the Falcon 9 public specs are on their website, and the Air Force likely already has the proprietary info that only qualified customers get (i.e. they are ITAR compliant, financially secure, etc.).

&quot;&lt;i&gt;The Air Force has said that it looked at SpaceXâ€™s capability, pulled the launches that SpaceX could perform out of the block buy, and awarded ULA the launches that SpaceX couldnâ€™t perform.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Actually that&#039;s not true, and I&#039;m not sure where you&#039;re getting that from.  Do you have a public reference for that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Kent said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>The last time he sued to have the courts force the Air Force to give him EELV launches was in 2005&#8230;</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>No, SpaceX did not sue the Air Force (i.e. U.S. Government), they sued Boeing and Lockheed Martin.</p>
<p>Specifically, &#8220;<i>In court documents filed Oct. 19 [2005], SpaceX is suing Boeing and Lockheed Martin &#8220;for violations of antitrust, unfair competition and racketeering laws.&#8221;</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re the legal person &#8211; how does that change your assumptions now?</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>The point is, defense contracts are awarded based on demonstrated contractor ability, not on the promises of its CEO.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>So let&#8217;s start with the fact that SpaceX has already demonstrated the minimum needed to qualify for consideration by the Air Force, which is three successful launches (the paperwork certification just confirms the qualification).</p>
<p>That being the case, it&#8217;s quite easy for the Air Force to validate his claim &#8211; the Falcon 9 public specs are on their website, and the Air Force likely already has the proprietary info that only qualified customers get (i.e. they are ITAR compliant, financially secure, etc.).</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>The Air Force has said that it looked at SpaceXâ€™s capability, pulled the launches that SpaceX could perform out of the block buy, and awarded ULA the launches that SpaceX couldnâ€™t perform.</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually that&#8217;s not true, and I&#8217;m not sure where you&#8217;re getting that from.  Do you have a public reference for that?</p>
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		<title>By: amightywind</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[amightywind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 01:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Given those choices, I pick Ares!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given those choices, I pick Ares!</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Nobles</title>
		<link>http://www.spacepolitics.com/2014/04/25/spacex-files-suit-over-eelv-block-buy-contract/#comment-481040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Nobles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2014 01:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spacepolitics.com/?p=7029#comment-481040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well windy, the proposed House bill that would halt use of the RD-180 presents you with a conundrum doesn&#039;t it?  You don&#039;t like the Russian engine being used but banning it may help SpaceX.  I&#039;m curious as to your position on this.  Whom do you hate and fear the most?  The Rooskies or SpaceX?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well windy, the proposed House bill that would halt use of the RD-180 presents you with a conundrum doesn&#8217;t it?  You don&#8217;t like the Russian engine being used but banning it may help SpaceX.  I&#8217;m curious as to your position on this.  Whom do you hate and fear the most?  The Rooskies or SpaceX?</p>
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