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Russia: what ASAT test?

While the US and a number of other countries are condemning the test of an ASAT weapon by the Chinese, Russian defense minister Sergei Ivanov is taking a very different tack, claiming that the test actually did not take place. “I have heard such rather unsubstantiated reports, and I am afraid they are unfounded,” RIA Novosti quoted him as saying Friday. “There is nothing to comment on. The rumors are largely exaggerated.” Ivanov didn’t say why be believes the reports are unfounded, though. Recall that Russia and China often worked together to press for treaties banning space weapons.

Chinese officials, meanwhile, have declined to confirm that the incident took place, but reiterated their opposition to space weapons. “There’s no need to feel threatened about this,” a Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said, according to AFP. “We are not going to get into any arms race in space.” The credibility of that statement is certainly questionable.

24 comments to Russia: what ASAT test?

  • richard b

    The Russians are in a oportunistic relationship with China aren’t they? Russian is the leading supplier for a vast Chinese military expansion which can threaten Russian interests in Siberia, yet their addiction to Chinese orders is unbreakable. I suspect only when China doesn’t need Russian technology will they protest what they’ve helped create. Until then, they’ll never criticise their neighbor.

  • As Allen Thompson points out over at s.s.p, this is probably and simply a lie. The Mishelevka radars would have been well positioned to watch the entire sequence, and one can be pretty sure they did.

  • Russia and China distrust each other, but at least according to wiki they have made steps at smoothing over the border disputes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Russian_relations

    I’m not sure I believe it though.

    For Russia to deny such an event really says something…

  • Dwayne Day

    “Russian is the leading supplier for a vast Chinese military expansion…”

    There’s been a lot of rhetoric about this “vast Chinese military expansion” but relatively few facts.

    If you count actual numbers of weapons, China has not expanded its military to any great degree. What they have primarily done is improve the quality of their systems. But that’s not saying much. Their previous systems have been lousy, and the vast majority of their air force, for instance, consists of badly outdated aircraft.

    In fact, over the past couple of years there have been a number of very good articles in Combat Airpower on the Chinese air force and its aircraft. The articles have made clear several things:

    -China takes a very long time to develop even limited systems, having taken decades to produce aircraft that were obsolete before the project even started
    -although China has bought a number of Russian aircraft (particularly the Su-27), their attempts to license build them have flopped
    -China’s ability to utilize even modern Russian equipment is extremely limited
    -they spend very little time training; Chinese pilots get something like 40 hours of flying time per year, whereas USAF pilots frequently get 5-6 times as much
    -the Chinese are wedded to obsolete methods of employing their weapons. In the case of airpower, the air force remains wedded to the army and does not operate independently. Thus, they have little concept of air superiority or power projection, and the air force cannot properly employ the weapons it does have.

    What the articles demonstrate is that even if the reports of substantial modernization are accurate, they may essentially be negated by really poor doctrine, lack of initiative, and virtually nonexistent training.

    Now you might reply that this is only the Chinese air force, but if they are this backward with their most high tech military arm, then why is there reason to believe that the other services are any better? Their navy, for instance, has acquired newer Russian equipment, but remains under the control of the People’s Liberation Army (it is actually called the People’s Liberation Army Navy, or PLAN). And their army still seems to be wedded to a strategy of mass numbers of poorly trained troops.

    There is reason to believe that much of the money that they are pouring into their military is going for some pretty basic stuff, such as better housing and personal equipment.

  • Dwayne Day

    “but at least according to wiki…”

    My dog can write Wikipedia entries. I suggest you find a more reputable source.

  • My dog can write Wikipedia entries.

    And you sir, are a liar. Somehow, we have come to expect more lies from you.

  • richardb

    One angle I haven’t heard is to what extent this proves China has mastered part of the the ballistic missile defense technology. As I understand their test, it was a direct ascent, not orbital rondezvous. Much like an intercept for missile defense. Of course this isn’t a realistic BMD exercise, as China had near perfect knowledge of orbital mechanics and infact could command it during the end game. Still, they hit a bullit with a bullit. Impressive.

  • I don’t know why people hate on wikipedia so much. I used to read encyclopedias for fun when I was a kid (yeah I know, pretty wierd) and there are so many inaccuracies in them even as a kid I found many mistakes with little trouble. If I am going to be fed BS, at least make it free and searchable BS on wiki.

  • I don’t know why people hate on wikipedia so much.

    Liberals bad. War and debt good. Space war extra special.

    Cowboys and horseys and doggies … to the moon!

  • Dr. Day, is there a wiki article on whether or not your dog can write wiki articles? Or whether or not you have a dog? Or whether or not Elifritz is a dog (it seems unlikely–dogs generally have pleasant personalities)? I mean, it’s so hard to tell on the Internets.

  • Dennis Wingo

    Even the Chinese admit the “flight for peace” now.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2556823,00.html

  • And now the Wingod is an apologist for liars. Who knew!

    I guess you’ll just have to trust me when I claim that dogs alone cannot write wikipedia articles, unless perhaps you have an infinite number of them, which is highly improbable. Have you made any progress on your ‘global warming is Milankovitch cycles, and if not, it’s the sun, and barring that, it’s good for us’ theory? I’ve made a moderate amount of progress on my ‘a five meter cryogenic fuel tank is about the size of a small corn silo’ theory.

  • GuessWho

    Thomas Lee – When are you going to actually fly something? It’s been a slow year for failures (barring Falcon I) and I really need a good belly laugh.

  • The Management

    Gentlemen: Please take your discussion of Wikipedia-article-writing dogs elsewhere. Thanks.

  • Thomas Lee – When are you going to actually fly something?

    Patience … grasshopper.

    The incredible shrinking rocket has been designed :

    http://cosmic.lifeform.org/?p=250
    http://cosmic.lifeform.org/?p=254

    The incredible shrinking rocket has been simulated :

    http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1327

    I’m assuming post shuttle retirement SSMEs will be available in 2011, and I’m assuming we will have a democratic president in 2009.

    Depending on the weather and climate, it may even be Al Gore, but that may well be wishful thinking. Regardless, that’s two full years until 2009, and two more full years until 2011. As it stands right now, I’m guessing 2012 – five years.

    That should be sufficient with strong democratic backing.

    First payload – a disposable reentry and landing cone for the SSME engine module, disguised as an aeroshield.

    One of the problems we believe we’ve solved is the tank foam problem – fast fill and launch, let the ice chips fall where they may.

    In 2011 America will have 15 space shuttle main engines to play with.

    If we can’t figure out how to get SSMEs and RL-10s back from orbit, with space suited ISS astronaut mechanics at our disposal, then really, there is just no hope for America.

    Praxair, Boeing, Pratt & Whitney and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

    And, as always, there remains the east coast of Wisconsin.

    What a great combination.

    Space Wars! Boo on you!

    P.S. – I’d still love to see a ten meter tank, but the Stick is most likely going to kill that idea. I guess I was just overly ambitious.

  • Rand,

    Elishtiz is not a dog, he is what comes out of a dog. Except most steaming piles of dogcrap make more sense so I suppose he is an especially stupid pile of dogcrap.

  • TLE,

    Good luck getting President McCain to fund that.

    If that is what you mean by democratic since you used a small d obviously you were referring to an upcoming electorial process and not a certain political party.

  • There are no wikipedia article writing dogs. Dwayne Day is a liar. End of discussion.

    Now Mike, will you please get back to us with your rocket design. My God, man, we’ve got commies to fight. Please don’t let America down.

  • My job description does not include designing fictional corn-silo based rockets. Are you going to be the first to ride a fictional corn-silo base rocket into the orbital funny farm?

    Perhaps we can chip in and place a lunatic asylum at EML-2 just for you!

    Does your job description include trolling forums with nonsense posts? I think we all already know that answer.

  • But Mike … the commies are shootin at our boys!

    What are you … unAmerican?

    Let’s see your rocket!

    Does your job description include trolling forums with nonsense posts?

    My job description includes defending the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. As far as I’m concerned, you are the enemy.

  • The enemy of what? Lame retardedness? Certainly not the Constution which unlike you, I actually took time to throughly read and later took an administered oath to uphold and defend to real and not imaginary people.

    Funny thing about the Constiution Tomme Lee, you might not like it so much if you took the time to read it and understand it. I doubt those who wrote it would think very much of you either. Unlike you, they had a commodity you have demonstrated you totally lack: Common Sense.

    When you get your corn-silo into orbit, I will fax you the plans for my rocket. Deal?

  • I doubt those who wrote it would think very much of you either. Unlike you, they had a commodity you have demonstrated you totally lack: Common Sense.

    Wow, science in 1776 was so advanced.

    You know, Mike, I think I’m going to have to go with the science on this one. You know, numbers and equations and stuff. That way my rocket exhaust won’t have to push against the air to get me to orbit, and I won’t have to invoke the aether.

  • Edward Wright

    > My job description includes defending the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

    No, Tommy, that is the job of the US military.

    You defend nothing, except pseudoscience and stupidity.

  • The Management

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