Last Monday Sen. Bill Nelson claimed that the White House would make a decision about NASA’s future by around Thanksgiving, based on a recent visit he had with the president on the subject. However, in an interview with Florida Today, Nelson appears to be telling a different story. Asked about the timeline for a decision, Nelson said that “sooner is better than later” but added that “I simply do not know” when such decisions would be announced. One can rationalize the two statements by concluding that Nelson said that he thought a decision would be made by Thanksgiving, but not announced until some unspecified later date, or that he was misinterpreted in one interview (or both).
Nelson added that he was “absolutely” convined that he and other space supporters in Congress could win over members and convince them to appropriate up to an additional $3 billion a year for NASA. Why he felt this way, when previous efforts to increase NASA’s budget by smaller amounts have failed, wasn’t discussed.
“Why he felt this way, when previous efforts to increase NASA’s budget by smaller amounts have failed, wasn’t discussed.”
Nelson likely thinks that (a) the fact that Augustine says the extra three billion is needed provides some cover and that (b) Obama will support adding the extra money.
I have doubts about (b), though I am willing to be proved wrong. Even if the President supports adding the extra money, the question remains how far he is prepared to go to make it stick. GW Bush made his first veto threat when Congress tried to gut VSE in the first year. Will Obama do the same?
“Why he felt this way, when previous efforts to increase NASA’s budget by smaller amounts have failed, wasn’t discussed.”
of course it was not discussed because the reporter was smart enough to recognize that Nelson doesnt really think it is going to happen. And it is not going to happen.
Neither The congress or the Administration are going to push it…its that simple.
Mark I give you this, you have really drank the koolaid. From saying on your web site that people are missing Bush the last to trying to hold him up as the guy who kept the VSE alive… wow
Robert G. Oler
“Mark I give you this, you have really drank the koolaid. From saying on your web site that people are missing Bush the last to trying to hold him up as the guy who kept the VSE alive… wow.”
It has the virtue of being true.
Mark. LOL the only people pining for Bush the last are the right wing of the GOP which couldnt win an election in a district that has been in the GOP since US Grant. Maybe it is the 21 percent of Americans who self identify as Republicans who are pining for Bush the last.
As for keeping VSE alive…lol again. It only was a money machine, it has produced nothing.
Robert G. Oler
Mark,
As long as you are here, responding, a question – you’ve been very disdainful towards the flexible plan, and said we need to do return to the moon.
Looking at the various Augustine Options, the difference between a flexible plan and a lunar focused plan is 5 years on the moon.
Why are those 5 year so important?
“Looking at the various Augustine Options, the difference between a flexible plan and a lunar focused plan is 5 years on the moon.”
I think it would be far more than that. “Look but don’t touch” done by itself would constitute flags and footsteps without the footsteps and, considering the nature of the current administration, without the flags. (sorry, but “Major Tom” and his vision of “boots on the ground on asteroids are laughable.) Support for such a program would quite likely start to peter out before the decision point, Moon or Mars, is even reached. I
Of course if we decided to do meaningful things at, say, an Earth approacher, like learn how to divert it, there would be a difference. But I’m informed that there will likely be no budget to do much but stand off and look at the rock in admiration before returning.
Mind, “Look but don’t touch” could have some use if combined with a lunar return. Fly the L1 mission and the lunar orbit mission (or even combine the two) before going to a landing by all means. Then do a lunar mission and a “deep space” mission per year (or more if we’re willing to spend more money) while finding ways to leverage private, commercial business as a capacity multiplier.
But I’m informed that there will likely be no budget to do much but stand off and look at the rock in admiration before returning.
You “are informed” by whom? Your imaginary friends in the mythical “Internet Rocketeer Club”?
Rand, the people whom I refer to as the Internet Rocketeer Club are many things, but informed they are not. I do notice that you don’t dispute the main point. No budget to do much more than smile and wave at the nice asteroid.
The main difference between flexible path and “go to (Moon or Mars” is that:
Flexible path actually accomplishes things that help humanity become a space faring civilization.
the most ridiculous claim in the world is that a return to the Moon or a trip to Mars done as a purely NASA project will have any affect on humanity moving out into space. What the effort will do is keep NASA NASA, in other words stifle any and all reform, make exploration so unaffordable that the US cannot do it, and finally will lock all federal government assets into a program that is already obsolete.
None of the “vision” had any hint of doing anything that created a space faring civilization, unless ones definition of it, is NASA going to the Moon (or mars) on an infrequent occassion at enormous price, decades from now.
Flexible path is a space faring civilization enabler because it works on technologies which, when the time is correct would allow decision makers the ability to accomplish exploration in space…and in the meantime if the technologies mature they allow us to do things in near earth space that are game changers on earth.
the opposite viewpoint is silly
take what Whittington wrote:
“No budget to do much more than smile and wave at the nice asteroid.”
why would we do anything more then that..does it have Saddams WMD on it? If it were going to hit the earth, we would get serious about solutions and immediatly most of NASA and its bureacracy would be told to sit quietly with hands folded while we try and save ourselves.
Robert G. Oler
Mark R. Whittington wrote @ November 9th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Rand, the people whom I refer to as the Internet Rocketeer Club are many things, but informed they are not…
do they think Bush the last is becoming popular again? LOL
Robert G. Oler
“‘Major Tom’ and his vision of “boots on the ground on asteroids are laughable”
Sigh…
Yeah, that’s why NASA and LockMart produced a video based on a study of a dual Orion mission to a NEO called (yes, wait for it)…
“Bootprints on Asteroids”.
And this video shows starting at the 2:55 mark (yes, wait for it)…
astronauts boots on the ground on an asteroid.
See:
http://www.space.com/common/media/video/player.php?videoRef=NEOnauts2
Your posts are so utterly ignorant it’s shameful. Please don’t post again until you’ve learned enough to produce at least one factual statement. Your writing is a total waste of other posters’ time to correct, and it makes you look like a complete idiot.
“the people whom I refer to as the Internet Rocketeer Club are many things, but informed they are not”
Then you must be the founder and president for life.
Not only did I correct you on this very topic twice in the prior thread, I even provided links to both a written reference and a reference an image. Somehow you still failed to learn that asteroid missions involve putting astronaut boots on the ground. This time I’ve provided moving pictures. I hope it’s enough. If you can’t learn through words, pictures, or movies, all that’s left is puppet shows.
Honestly, my preschool nephew learns more quickly.
“Of course if we decided to do meaningful things at, say, an Earth approacher… to do much more than smile and wave at the nice asteroid.”
The final report of the Augustine Committee states explicitely on p. 41 that the objectives of NEO missions are “to return samples and… practice in-situ resource extraction.”
Are you incapable of reading these documents or are you just too lazy to do so?
“But I’m informed that there will likely be no budget to do much but stand off and look at the rock in admiration before returning.”
You’re informed by who? The imaginary rocketeers in your imaginary club?
Are you not taking the medicine you need to stay in touch with reality? Are you seeing things and talking to imaginary people?
“Support for such a program would quite likely start to peter out before the decision point, Moon or Mars, is even reached. I”
You what? Wrote another incomplete sentence?
Cripes…
Actually what makes Mark Whittington’s arguments in support of Constellation and Ares seem nutty, is that at one point I KNOW he liked the book “The Future and Its Enemies: The Growing Conflict Over Creativity, Enterprise, and Progress ”
In his zest to defend all things Bush the last, a function I guess of him having been a zealot in support of that sad president…Whittington has forgotten the basic tenents of the book, that a creative free enterprise system should not lock itself into long term things which stifle “creativity, Enterprise and progress”.
“The Vision” does just that.
Good morning everyone. Great jog in the early Texas morning. I had worried that coming back I would get out of shape…actually things get better!
Long Live The Republic
Robert G. Oler
“But I’m informed that there will likely be no budget to do much but stand off and look at the rock in admiration before returning.”
Kinda like what we’ve been doing on ISS for a decade? But at least ISS has allowed us to exercise and develop many many skills that will be useful for more ambitious space travel. The same can be said about the first missions to NEOs. It isn’t all about rocks.
On the other hand, we could be bumping our heads in tunnels on the Moon. Probably not admiring those rocks so much.
Rand, the people whom I refer to as the Internet Rocketeer Club are many things, but informed they are not. I do notice that you don’t dispute the main point. No budget to do much more than smile and wave at the nice asteroid.
Ignoring your continuing fantasies about your imaginary friends, I do dispute the main point. Getting there is most of the cost. If it’s done sensibly, there are many useful things that can be done there within existing budgets. And you haven’t told us who “informed” you of your delusions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/buzz-aldrin/why-we-need-better-rocket_b_351335.html
Buzz is coherent
Robert G. Oler
Although I think he’s wrong about heavy lift, IMHO.
Although I think he’s wrong about heavy lift, IMHO.
As are all proponents of it.
Ferris Valyn I do not know for sure about “heavy lift”.
There is a reason that a lot of people are talking about government heavy lift…I use to think that most heavy lift was a fools errand…then I had some talks with a person who is gone now, James Chestek…who convinced me otherwise.
I do not think NASA can do anything, much less heavy lift. I am not for sure that an affordable heavy lift is not impossible nor that it will not be needed
Robert G. Oler
The problem with a Heavy Lift vehicle development is that someday you have to put something in it that is Heavy. Which means somewhere along the line the President/Congress have agreed to a major development effort to the thing that is Heavy. Which means it probably was a controversial decision that would be reviewed by a future Augustine like Commission that would recommend yet another path because the funds aren’t there to develop the Heavy thing, and all other Heavy things that go with it .
And history repeats itself.
What the public thinks about NASA, Part X^n, from Barry Ritholz’s Big Picture financial blog:
ashpelham2 Says:
November 10th, 2009 at 9:46 am
I know there is significant waste in local and state governments, but it’s nothing compared to what Federal government is doing. So, to me, that means state and local have less to cut out out of the budget, plus they are the providers of necessity services such as fire protection, water, sewer, trash, etc. One can only cut so far before those cuts get into necessary services, and the public starts to really notice. I mean, I don’t notice if NASA gets it’s budget cut, but I sure notice if nobody picks up our garbage full of diapers for a week or two.
Stimulate away!!!
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/11/state-local-taxes-plummet/#comments
David Davenport yeah this is the problem
there is nothing I mean nothing after 40 years or so of drift that any American can look at from human spaceflight and say “that changes the course of The Republic in some manner that I can see”.
On the other hand cut five law enforcement officers and well one can notice.
I was at the local volunteer fire department “raise money” picnic…this area is pretty local to JSC although it is far more rural then our house in clear lake. anyway the VFD has just been turned down for a modern dispatch system that would link them on more then single channel VHF radios to all the other FD’s…and this was juxtapositioned with the word that about 1/2 billion dollars had been spent on a two minute test hop on Ares.
Predictable reaction.
Robert G. Oler