With the NASA authorization bill complete, members of Congress are turning their attention to other space-related matters–including, it seems, making their case to win one of the space shuttles when the fleet is retired next year. The authorization bill contains this relevant passage in section 603:
Upon the termination of the Space Shuttle program as provided in section 602, the Administrator shall decommission any remaining Space Shuttle orbiter vehicles according to established safety and historic preservation procedures prior to their designation as surplus government property. The orbiter vehicles shall be made available and located for display and maintenance through a competitive procedure established pursuant to the disposition plan developed under section 613(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Authorization Act of 2008 (42 U.S.C. 17761(a)), with priority consideration given to eligible applicants meeting all conditions of that plan which would provide for the display and maintenance of orbiters at locations with the best potential value to the public, including where the location of the orbiters can advance educational opportunities in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics disciplines, and with an historical relationship with either the launch, flight operations, or processing of the Space Shuttle orbiters or the retrieval of NASA manned space vehicles, or significant contributions to human space flight. The Smithsonian Institution, which, as of the date of enactment of this Act, houses the Space Shuttle Enterprise, shall determine any new location for the Enterprise.
The emphasized section above is key, since it was added prior to the bill’s passage in the Senate to remove some concerns that the original bill favored sites such as KSC and JSC. “This legislation will ensure a level playing field for New York,” Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), who got the additional language inserted into the Senate bill to protect the bid by the Intrepid museum in New York City, told the New York Daily News, “and on a level playing field, New York will win.” The day after the House passed the bill, Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) sent a letter to NASA administrator Charles Bolden asking that one of the shuttles be awarded to her state, another beneficiary of the bill’s additional language.
A contrary opinion comes from Florida Today, which claims that “the legislation does still give Florida’s Space Coast a leg up on places like New York City. However, that assessment appears based on a reading of an older version of the bill, not the one passed by the Senate and House with the additional provision.
In a teleconference with reporters last week, NASA deputy administrator Lori Garver said that the bill language would not affect the agency’s plans since it had already incorporated those factors in its evaluation of proposals for shuttle orbiters. The timing of the announcement, which had originally been expected for this summer, will depend on when exactly the shuttles will be retired, she said, but that announcement “certainly should happen this year.” (Ohio officials, including Sen. Sherrod Brown, told the Dayton Daily News Monday that they didn’t expect an announcement until as late as summer 2011, the notional date of the final, additional shuttle flight.)
One shuttle has to go to the Smithsonian, or so I would assume and I doubt that KSC would be rejected either. Is there an aerospace museum on the West Coast?
However, the argument isn’t so clear-cut. Let’s not forget Enterprise. IIRC, she actually is at the Smithsonian already and I undersand that KSC has a scale mock-up called Pathfinder. So I’m sure that one could argue that rules out those two locations for the three retired orbiters.
I think that read somewhere that there was a museum at the Davis Monathan AFB “boneyard”, which is up against the Rockies somewhere, but I’m not sure on that point.
The real question is where Enterprise goes. The Smithsonian/Udvar-Hazy will undoubtedly have pick of the litter (which in their case is Discovery). After that, you have Florida and KSC to contend with. I’d be surprised if Bill Nelson couldn’t hold sway on this NASA issue too. So that leaves one retired Shuttle left. That will go to either JSC or Dayton. I’d put my money on JSC, but the AF museum in Dayton may be a strong contender. Lots of former astronauts hale from Ohio and the state’s purple complexion puts it in an influential position. In any event, I don’t think Ohio would turn down the Enterprise if that’s what’s left.
The chances of Seattle or New York getting the Enterprise, let alone a retired Orbiter, are practically nil. Both cities have excellent museums, but I fail to see their historical connection with the Shuttle program.
In a perfect world, Enterprise goes to Edwards AFB although I don’t know if they have a facility to display it, or the money to raise to build it.
I’d put the three orbiters at the National Air and Space Museum’s Udvar-Hazy Center near Dulles, Kennedy Space Center, and Johnson Space Center.
Unfortunately, politics will intervene and they’ll probably wind up in places that had nothing to do with Shuttle, if the Congressional porkers have their way.
Ben Russell-Gough wrote:
“I undersand that KSC has a scale mock-up called Pathfinder.”
Pathfinder is at Space Camp in Huntsville.
Two fake orbiter mockups are near KSC. One is at the Visitors Complex. It’s hollow so you can walk through what would be the cargo by and look at a cross-section of the crew compartment. The other mockup is at the old Space Camp in Titusville which is now the Astronaut Hall of Fame.
My choices would be any one of the remaining three active shuttles go to KSC, JSC and Edwards AFB.
Enterprise can go to the Smithsonian.
My $0.02.
Certainly Houston has a huge interest and a huge constituency. An Orbiter would fit well in the center of Space Center Houston but would fill the place up. Given the chance, SCH would move stuff around to put the Shuttle there.
The problem for the Air Force Museum is that their facilities are also full and they would have to shuffle a lot of things around to make room on a floor.
I heard that Texas A&M just north of Houston was actually favored strongly as they are the only university competing and NASA would like to have one in an academic environment. They have one heck of a big museum being built there. Also Pres. George H.W. Bush, all kinds of officials, and just about every school district in the state support the Texas A&M location. They’ve already got the shuttle motion simulator going there. In a way, it makes sense if they do get one, since you probably can’t get in the shuttles, you could get in the simulator. Basically, you could see the shuttle, then see what it looks like inside.
I think the Smithsonian already has Discovery locked up. If that is the case then KSC should get Atlantis (the last to fly), JSC should get Enterprise and the Seattle Museum of Flight should get Endeavour. There should be an orbiter that actually flew in space on the west coast and the Seattle site is the best I know of.
For the record, Davis-Monthan is in Tucson, AZ.
“I heard that Texas A&M just north of Houston was actually favored strongly”
No, it isn’t. That is an internet myth
I know people in Chicago who still think Adler Planetarium has a shot. I’m not one of them, but I would love it if it happened. The argument that the location of the shuttle should have a logical connection may not hold water — after all, there is a 252 foot German U-Boat on display in Chicago whereas you might expect it in an Atlantic port city with a larger naval presence. And of course, Apollo 8’s command module is here too. Space advocates might want to consider the size of the population center and the museum attendence numbers when considering where a shuttle might do the most good for promoting future space endeavors.
@MrEarl, Is the Seattle museum you ref the one at Boeing Field? If so, good choice. I saw my first SR-71 there, and well as the Stealth Bomber in flight. Great place to visit!
Bennett:
Yes it is at Boeing Field. I have not been there and only know it by reputation but I hear it is on par with the Smithsonian in DC.
Bob-1 wrote:
… there is a 252 foot German U-Boat on display in Chicago whereas you might expect it in an Atlantic port city with a larger naval presence.
Well, the original Mayor Daley did run Chicago like a fascist …
Off topic: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_nobel_physics
Nobel physics prize for ultrathin carbon discovery
“University of Manchester professors Andre Geim and Konstantin Novoselov used Scotch tape to isolate graphene, a form of carbon only one atom thick but more than 100 times stronger than steel, and showed it has exceptional properties, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences said.
Experiments with graphene could lead to the development of new superstrong and lightweight materials with which to make satellites, aircraft and cars, the academy said in announcing the 10 million kronor ($1.5 million) award.”
A possible new spacecraft material?
Ha! Nice one. I’m sure I’ll use your line with out of town visitors!
If people haven’t seen the sub exhibit in many years, it is worth taking a new look — the indoor exhibit is pretty stunning.
Bob-1 wrote @ October 5th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
the story of how U-505 came to be there is amazing in itself, (the full length of it from its capture to its present place)…and the “boat” itself is amazing to go through.
Robert G. Oler
Vladislaw, sounds abit like Transparent Aluminum and Star Trek..
Ben Russell-Gough wrote @ October 5th, 2010 at 7:35 am
I think that read somewhere that there was a museum at the Davis Monathan AFB “boneyardâ€, which is up against the Rockies somewhere, but I’m not sure on that point….
As Rand correctly noted Monathan is at Tucson which well more in the high desert…
but the museum is wonderful. The Pima air museum is a must visit for folks who love aviation (there is a Titan missile complex as well…it is the one that stood in during a Trek Movie)…I have lost track of how many times I have been there and still can spend the entire day. On the other end of the state (up north near the Canyon) is the “Planes of Fame” museum which is a little less on the beaten track but excellent (and they also have some really old cars). I was there recently as they are restoring the first B-50 to fly around the world using air to air refueling…(the Lucky Lady Two). …a B-50 is a sort of different B-29.
The people there are first rate the exhibits are as open as one could be…and again aviation buffs could spend sometime there.
“Yes it is at Boeing Field. I have not been there and only know it by reputation but I hear it is on par with the Smithsonian in DC”
yes.
Robert G. Oler
Dennis Berube wrote @ October 5th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Vladislaw, sounds abit like Transparent Aluminum and Star Trek..
well it is the anniversary of the Vulcans first arriving in earth orbit.
Robert G. Oler
” “I heard that Texas A&M just north of Houston was actually favored stronglyâ€
No, it isn’t. That is an internet myth” ”
Is it an internet myth? Based on what? How did it get started?
I heard the same thing, they they were favored, and that was coming from the Bush guys.
I mean, they would know, right? If anyone “knows” anything. I’d imagine if Bush called someone and asked who was seriously in the running, they’d tell him. If he thinks they’re a top contender, they probably are.
And i’m just sayin, i have a friend who used to work for NASA for like 30 years who heard that the shuttles were gonna follow the simulators. THAT….is a rumor, but it had to start somewhere. Now, I dunno about that, but it makes sense. People think Adler has a shot and they ARE getting a simulator…so is Seattle IIRC, and they also have a pretty good shot at getting a shuttle.
Dunno, might piss all you guys off, but what IF the shuttles follow the simulators? What if NASA puts them where no one THINKS they should go?
That puts one shuttle in the east, one in the north, one in the south, and one in west…thats logical to me.
For the fun of it, I’ve put together a list of aerospace museums in the U.S., and posted them on this blog:
http://upandawaytospace.blogspot.com/
I tend to think that the list of possible destinations for orbiters is going to be fairly short, since most aerospace museums are not that big. Other types of museums may be candidates too. And there will be lots of other Shuttle memorabilia that can get divided up. I wonder how long it will be until an SSME shows up on Ebay?
Transparent Aluminum = Aluminum Oxynitride
It’s actually a ceramic… FWIW
I just know porker extraordinaire Senator Richard Shelby (R-AL) will start screaming about the Muslim socialist if he doesn’t get an orbiter for Huntsville …
This is just awfully thinking.
You ought to send all of the remaining orbiters to China as gifts. Along with an SRB and an ET.
This will make sure that they will “learn” from it, build their own slightly modified version and be locked into the gargantuan costs of the program for the next 30 years, making no real progress in space.
reader wrote @ October 5th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Damn. The cynical pulse of reality.
Is this the first time there’s been no name calling? Surely not!!!
Here’s a suggestion. Mount one on a 747 and take it on a world tour. Better still convert the 747 into flying museum. That way one shuttle can visit any large airport and maximise Outreach.
Then when fatigue & etc mandate a permanent ‘end to flight': strip off the TPS tiles and donate to educational establishments. Share the wealth.
Repeat for the other orbiters.
Stopgap Bonus: the mock TPS will have to be manufactured and emplaced by the ex- standing army. Thus providing jobs!
San Diego has a nice museum; Los Angeles as well. Edwards perhaps as well could give one a home– would make a nice draw up to the high desert for something other than air shows. Figure one for the Smithsonian and one for the Intrepid in NYC which will get a great draw.
@brobof- They did that w/Enterprise about 30 years ago. Saw it over NYC on the way to Washington then a cross country ‘tour.’ If you aren’t looking for it, nobody bothers to look up and it really isn’t as big as you might think at 3000 ft over midtown Manhattan.
@MrEarl- Enterprise is already at the NASM annex. Perhaps they’ll put that out on loan and fill the space w/Discovery. San Diego and LA both have good aerospace museums. And there’s Edwards AFB to consider as a site and draw.
Stephen C. Smith wrote @ October 5th, 2010 at 8:48 am
In a perfect world, Enterprise goes to Edwards AFB although I don’t know if they have a facility to display it, or the money to raise to build it. <- They do– lots of hanger space. They have everything up there and room for it but it's a pain tp get to and if memory serves, they only open the base up once a year for air shows and arent keen on the public crawling around the base. But you see everything there — even met Yeager after he broke the sound barrier for the last time back in 1997 up there. If it has wings, you see it there if they choose to let you. But it is a pain to get to even from Los Angeles.
Stephen C. Smith wrote @ September 8th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
[Anne Spudis wrote: 50% of Americans want Americans in space. And this has been almost a constant number for decades.]
Cite your sources. All the articles I’ve seen in recent years say the opposite.
Update for Stephen C. Smith
October 5, 2010 – Rasumssem Reports:
[snip] “Forty percent (40%) of Americans feel the space program should be funded by the government, up slightly from April. Thirty-two percent (32%) say funding for the program should come from the private sector. Twenty-eight percent (28%) are undecided.
Interestingly, most entrepreneurs and private company employees feel the space program should be government-funded, while the plurality of government workers feel the private sector should handle the expense.
An overwhelming 72% say it’s at least somewhat important for the United States to have a manned space program, including 35% who say it’s Very Important. Only 21% say it’s not very or not at all important for the country to send humans into space. …â€
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/october_2010/52_say_space_shuttle_program_has_been_worth_the_cost
Earlier linked poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/121736/majority-americans-say-space-program-costs-justified.aspx
Anne Spudis wrote @ October 6th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
“October 5, 2010 – Rasumssem Reports:”
Are you settling an old argument, or is this somehow related to the present topic?
Regarding polls, it’s one thing to ask if the public thinks something is important, but it’s another to ask them how much they would be willing to pay.
That same Rasumssem poll showed that “52% of Adults say the space shuttle program has been worth the expense to taxpayers” – that’s not a ringing endorsement of the job NASA has done over the last 30 years, especially when forty-one percent (41%) believe the United States should cut back on space exploration.
The binary choice of government vs the private sector for space funding is also a silly question, since that is not even the question or the debate that is before us.
I think you can find trends in this poll, but I would not look for answers.
Talking about final Shuttle resting places.
We’ve got a space museum at Woomera in South Australia. Can anyone organise the last Shuttle mission to detour the landing flightpath a la ‘The Core’ and just accidentally land there. LOL.
For a bit of info': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woomera,_South_Australia#World_Historical_Aerospace_Site
What about the Technikmuseum in Speyer, they already have the Russian counterpart Buran on display and lots of space in their newly erected space hangar left. Think global not local!