States

Supporting space in Florida

Florida Senate president Mike Haridopolos, who is also seeking the Republican nomination to run against US Senator Bill Nelson in 2012, called for more support from the federal government for Florida’s space industry in a curious op-ed in the Orlando Sentinel on Wednesday. Haridopolos laments the impending layoff of 1,900 workers at the Kennedy Space Center as the shuttle program retires, but, he notes, since there is “still no clear continuing mission for NASA, contractor United Launch Alliance has no other choice.” Of course, it’s United Space Alliance that is laying off the shuttle workers, not ULA, which operates the Atlas and Delta rockets. He also claims that the $40 million promised to Florida workers last year by the White House has yet to show up, which he calls “a failure of leadership.” (No reason for the missing money is given, but one possibility is that the federal government didn’t have a final FY11 spending bill until last week.)

By contrast, he says, Florida is doing a much better job in supporting its space industry. “Despite limited resources, the Florida Legislature in 2010 increased space-program funding by more than 600 percent,” he writes. Space Florida did get $31 million in 2010, but about two-thirds of that was for one-time initiatives; new governor Rick Scott’s budget proposed $10 million for the agency in 2011, something not mentioned in the op-ed. He also cites “new aerospace jobs” that have come to Florida’s Space Coast as a result of space efforts, but most of the examples he gives are more “aero” than “space”, and some are neither, like 600 jobs for “Associated Telecommunications Management Systems” [sic], a company that is “the largest provider of pre-paid telephone service in the United States”, according to a local jobs site.

Even that $10 million for Space Florida may be in jeopardy. An editorial in Wednesday’s issue of Florida Today raises concerns that Space Florida’s budget could be combined with that other state economic development agencies and put under the direct control of Governor Scott. Citing Scott’s recent controversial decision to unilaterally kill plans for a high-speed rail project in the state, the editorial says, “There’s no reason Scott — who has no knowledge of the space industry and still hasn’t used his office to make a strong space commitment — could not do the same on space, rejecting ventures regardless of their benefit simply because he didn’t like them.” Even if he didn’t, the editorial adds, “the strangling maw of a super bureaucracy” could make it harder to win funding for space efforts in the state. To prevent that from happening, the editorial seeks support from… Sen. Haridopolos, who “should stop him [Scott] to ensure the agency maintains its ability to act quickly and aggressively to seek companies at a time when the shuttle program’s end will be a body slam to the Space Coast’s economy.”

39 comments to Supporting space in Florida

  • Of course there’s a continuing mission for NASA. It’s called the budget:

    http://www.nasa.gov/news/budget/

    It’s amazing the lies some politicians will tell to put the spin on protecting their pork.

  • amightywind

    If you compare at the economic devastation heaped on the space coast by the cancellation Constellation to any illusory gains the left made in rewarding their friends in Newspace, politicians like Bill Nelson will wonder if it was worth give up his career. Democrats are handing Florida to the Republicans on a silver platter.

    Citing Scott’s recent controversial decision to unilaterally kill plans for a high-speed rail project in the state

    The last thing this country needs in the 21st century is a Soviet style rail system. Rail is inferior to cars for short distance travel and commercial aircraft for everything else. It cannot even operate without a government subsidy. This has been true since 1950. Many thanks to Governor Scott, and other governors like Christie, Kasich, and Walker for axing frivolous rail projects.

  • tu8ca

    A Republican setting aside corporate welfare and entitlements for the US space industry ?!

    ” … we must successfully shift them from the public sector to the private sector.”

    The is a God.

  • Doug Lassiter

    Well, in his mind, the clear continuing mission of NASA should be making jobs for people in Florida, and that’s not a conspicuous part of the agency budget proposal. Actually it sounds like exploring space is pretty irrelevant to him.

    One would like to believe at least that a member of the U.S. Congress, which is a job that Haridopolis aspires to, would be devoted to the betterment of a nation, rather than just to one state. Ideally looking to how his state could be rewarded for contributing to that. But his political discourse is unfortunately not that deep. His position is that “All Americans, especially NASA employees and Space Coast residents, deserve better.” As NASA spreads it’s budget around the country, who would have guessed that southeastern Florida residents deserve it more!

  • Major Tom

    “If you compare at the economic devastation heaped on the space coast by the cancellation Constellation…”

    What “economic devastation”? Studies? Statistics? Citations? References?

    And how can a program whose primary contribution to the Florida economy was one, half-billion dollar, 4-segment SRB launch two years ago “devastate” that economy with its cancellation?

    Don’t make stuff up.

    “Democrats are handing Florida to the Republicans on a silver platter.”

    How? Even if every KSC worker and their spouse voted for one party over the other (and that’s not going to happen), their numbers are swamped (no pun intended) by voters interested in other issues, like retirees and Cuban emigrees. Even that rail project is going to be a bigger issue (negative or positive) for more Floridians than KSC.

    FWIW…

  • CharlesHouston

    This will be a tough time for Florida, but there is a light at the end of their tunnel. Certainly there will be more expendable flights (from the CC AFS side of the Causeway) and more astronauts flying from there also.
    What Florida can do is help KSC attract tourists after the final Shuttle flight. Now that there will be few restricted areas, Florida could develop a tour that emphasized the moon missions (the pads for Mercury and Gemini are on the CC AFS side) as well as the Shuttle. The Saturn flew from KSC and a lot of facilities were used for that. Tourists can finally get into the VAB and walk on the launch pads.

  • Coastal Ron

    amightywind wrote @ April 20th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    The last thing this country needs in the 21st century is a Soviet style rail system.

    Hmm. So you’re AGAINST government transportation when it has at least SOME level of demand (rail), but completely FOR government transportation when it has NO funded demand (SLS)?

    Consistent as always Windy.

  • Guest

    Actually, the space coast has seen almost as little from the $31 million Sen. Haridopolos worked on as it has from the $40 million President Obama promised. The former is stuck in the Governor’s Office and most of it has not been released, the latter was tied up in the CR / FY 11 budget fight. Rumor has it that the NASA funding for the EDA grants was included, I assume we will find out for sure soon enough.

    Also worth noting that Space Florida has been without appointed space industry board members for almost 9 months since a bill passed last year to increase industry’s role in setting the agency’s priorities. That would be the terms of Governor Crist (6 months) and Governor Scott (3 months).

    Due to this failure, the allocation of the $31 million is being decided by Tallahassee agency and political officials, not the people with insights into new and emerging industry trends and technology.

  • GuessWho

    MT – “… voters interested in other issues, like retirees and Cuban emigrees. Even that rail project is going to be a bigger issue (negative or positive) for more Floridians than KSC.”

    Studies? Statistics? Citations? References?

    Goose, Sauce, Gander.

  • Major Tom

    “Goose, Sauce, Gander.”

    Sure.

    The KSC workforce numbers about 13K, including feds and contractors.

    The workforce for building the Florida high-speed rail project was estimated at 24K, almost two times the number of KSC workers. So if you’re running for U.S. President, Governor of Florida, or one of Florida’s two Senate seats, issues of importance to the companies, unions, and workers that were planning for that project are almost twice as important to your election or reelection than issues of importance to the KSC workforce.

    After the Cuban Revolution, about 14K Cubans, primarily children, emigrated to the U.S. between 1960 and 1962. Most settled in in Miami-Dade, followed by Hialeah, both in Florida. The Mariel boatlift brought another 125K in the early 1980s, primarily to Miami proper and Key West. So we’re talking something approaching 140K first-generation Cuban-Americans in Florida, minus deaths and migration to other states. That figure swamps the KSC workforce by more than an order of magnitude. So if you’re running for U.S. President, Governor of Florida, or one of Florida’s two Senate seats, issues of importance to first-generation Cuban-Americans (forget their voting-age children and non-Cuban spouses) are at least ten times more important to your election or reelection than issues of importance to the KSC workforce.

    The number of people 65 and older in Florida is about 2.7 million. That figure swamps the KSC workforce by more than two orders of magnitude. So if you’re running for U.S. President, Governor of Florida, or one of Florida’s two Senate seats, issues of importance to retirees are more than 100 times more important to your election or reelection than issues of importance to the KSC workforce.

    I personally wish it were otherwise — that the civil space community (however defined) had greater numbers and more political clout. But we don’t and the numbers speak for themselves as to the reason why. We’re very small and, as a result, very low on the list of political priorities. We’re not going to explore and develop space by trying to hold politicians hostage to our votes and pet hardware. We’re only going to explore and develop space by being hardware-agnostic, very efficient with the resources we’ve got, demonstrating actual progress, and making ourselves relevant to other political priorities.

    FWIW…

  • In related news, Florida Today reports that President Obama will attend the STS-134 Endeavour launch on April 29.

  • vulture4

    Haridopolos defies logic. Like the other state legislators he understands little of the space program. Unsurprisingly, he blames Obama for everything and the Republicans, including Bush, for nothing. Strange he says nothing about when Shuttle was cancelled and by whom. Had Bush not made the fatal decision to kill the Shuttle in 2004, the program would have continued despite the current budget pressure. Despite its old design Shuttle development was paid for and it was obviously still needed to support ISS.

    Constellation (and its congressionally designed successor) are failures, very expensive systems costing more than the Shuttle to launch and producing, unfortunately, no useful return. There was no money for manned flight to the moon or an asteroid under Bush or Obama, and it won”t happen until earth-to-LEO is a factor of ten less expensive.

    There are no (0) payloads willing to pay for a shuttle-derived launcher. In contrast, SpaceX has a very low-cost infrastructure that is giving even Soyuz and Long March a run for their money, has launched twice into orbit and has over 20 missions already on its manifest including about a dozen true commercial launches.

    I think it was mistake to overlook the OSC commercial crew concept. Runway landing is by far the most practical way to achieve reusability. But regardless, It’s time to jettison what remains of Constellation and move on to the future. Until then NASA will be hemorrhaging what little money it has on useless souveniers of a bygone age.

  • DCSCA

    @Stephen C. Smith wrote @ April 20th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    LOL yeah, Nixon attended the Apollo 12 launch in November, ’69 then began terminating rest of the Apollo program in January, 1970.

  • amightywind

    In related news, Florida Today reports that President Obama will attend the STS-134 Endeavour launch on April 29.

    It is as good as he can do that day as he was snubbed by the Windsors of an invitation to William’s wedding. He will at the Cape be to bask in the light of Gabrielle Giffords. But presence will antagonize NASA employees about to lose their jobs. I encourage them to protest his presence. Let us hope that the GOP uses the event to call attention to the shambles that is NASA.

  • DCSCA

    @amightywind wrote @ April 20th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Right. It has nothing to do with NASA/shuttle and everything to do w/Gabby Giffords. It borders on a campaign event as well so charging back the costs for the use of the plane and staff may come up.

  • Florida, especially the Space Coast, would be buffoons to vote for Barack Obama again!!! He demolished NASA and the U.S. space program!! I for one, cannot wait to see Mitt Romney or another Republican, sway Florida back into the conservative fold! If the Republicans win Florida’s electoral votes, and the Presidency, they should proceed to rebuild & recreate the manned Lunar effort. The country needs a truly grand & noble goal in DEEP space. TO THE MOON, we should go, for a yet greater round of selenographic exploration!

  • amightywind

    The country needs a truly grand & noble goal in DEEP space.

    Yes! This nation can no longer be distracted by the petty visions of Newspace. Onward to the moon!

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53495.html

  • The country needs a truly grand & noble goal in DEEP space.

    Indeed! And SLS is the best way that I know of NOT to meet that goal!

    @ablastofhotair
    I hope you do realize that the Politico article is a negative review of SLS? If you don’t, please read the article all the way to end and think about what you read.

  • Coastal Ron

    Rick Boozer wrote @ April 21st, 2011 at 9:30 am

    @ablastofhotair
    I hope you do realize that the Politico article is a negative review of SLS? If you don’t, please read the article all the way to end and think about what you read.

    He doesn’t even know what he doesn’t even know! :-)

    Of course if he did read the article to the end, he would see how much money is flowing into the pockets of those in Congress with NASA oversight, and the contractors providing that money stand to win big on the SLS if NASA is forced to use Constellation contractors in a non-competitive fashion.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi AW, RB –

    IMO the Politico article is very well balanced, but the lobbying money numbers for ATK appear way too low.

    We now understand that the Congress has no desire to continue to rely on other nations for manned space access (as a matter of fact, it didn’t from the start, but Russia has been a good partner, especially after Columbia), and no desire to simply stand by and let China develop the Moon, in other words to accede the leading international role in manned spaceflight to China.

    Rep Rohrabacher’s comments were wonderful.

    Given the amounts of money spent on lobbying by these firms, I have something that I would like to sell them, a much better answer to the “Why?” question.

  • Jim Hillhouse

    I dealt with State Sen. Haridopolos in 2008 and his passion for human space flight is real. Just as it is with Dean Cannon.

    Gov. Scott can propose budget cuts to Space Florida until he’s blue in the face, but what he’ll face in the Florida legislature is broad based support for continuing Florida’s tradition as the state most supportive of space and the technical talent it brings to the state. Whenever there was a conference on space in Florida, there were usually 3-5 state legislators, the Lt. Governor as well, in attendance. I don’t know any state that can claim that sort of support.

    At the rate Scott is going, he’ll be a one termer.

  • Jim Hillhouse

    What Major Tom is missing is how critical the I-4 Corridor, and its 12 counties, is in Florida, and Brevard County is the eastern anchor. That is why the Obama and the McCain campaigns worked hard in that county.

    Florida’s north goes GOP; the South Dem. From Charlotte County to Brevard, there are 12 counties that can tip the scales of Florida state elections. The I-4 corridor— the Tampa Bay and Orlando markets combined—in which over 43% of the state’s voters live, makes it the state’s famous “highway to political heaven” for presidential candidates.

    http://www.sayfiereview.com/documents/Media_Market_Makeup.pdf

  • reader

    Boeing spent nearly $18 million on its own lobbying operation in 2010
    ..
    In addition, Boeing hired 19 outside lobbying firms and paid them an additional $3.5 million-plus.
    ..
    Lockheed Martin spent nearly $13 million on in-house lobbying and $3 million on outside lobbyists,

    Alliant Techsystems, also known as ATK, spent $1.3 million on federal lobbying…

    Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne, which is working with ATK on part of the rocket system, is a division of United Technologies, and is itself a major lobbying force — spending $14.5 million in 2010 ..

    Total 53M ? Does this come straight from profits that each of these made on cost-plus Constellation contract work ?

    It a self-feeding machine.

  • Vladislaw

    Windy is constantly whining about the pennies that SpaceX has contributed to politicians but from the link he provided:


    And the companies that have billions at stake were heavy players as well.

    Boeing spent nearly $18 million on its own lobbying operation in 2010, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a government watchdog group. In addition, Boeing hired 19 outside lobbying firms and paid them an additional $3.5 million-plus. Among its outside lobbyists is former House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt (D-Mo.).

    Boeing’s PAC donated more than $2.2 million during the past cycle, including $7,500 to Shelby’s campaign committee, $13,000 to Mikulski’s reelection committee and leadership PAC, $1,000 to Aderholt and $3,500 to Wolf.

    Lockheed Martin spent nearly $13 million on in-house lobbying and $3 million on outside lobbyists, including former Rep. Sonny Callahan (D-Ala.). And Bill Inglee, staff director of the House Appropriations Committee, is a former vice president at Lockheed Martin.

    Lockheed Martin’s PAC shelled out nearly $3.5 million in 2009-10, according to records, with the lawmakers seeking the NASA funding receiving more than $69,000.

    Alliant Techsystems, also known as ATK, spent $1.3 million on federal lobbying, according to disclosure reports. Its PAC gave out $28,500 to lawmakers involved in obtaining the new NASA funding, including $15,000 to Shelby, FEC records show.”

    Hell they got a bargin, see how cheap it was to buy a few votes from congress for billions in contracts.

    SpaceX better get on the ball and spend more on lobbying efforts and then they will get BILLIONS instead of millions.

  • The $40M promised by President Obama was to be taken from NASA’s FY-11 budget in two chunks: $35M for EDA “Innovation Cluster” grants and $5M for a new FAA Tech Center that would be based at KSC. The CR mess screwed everything up for FY-11, but I’m told the FAA $5M is in that agency’s FY-12 budget request. The status of the EDA’s $35M is less clear. I don’t think it’s in NASA’s FY-12 request.

    Also, remember that the $40M promised by the President was upped to $100M, with $60M going to other non-Florida communities impacted by the Shuttle’s retirement.

  • Major Tom

    “What Major Tom is missing is how critical the I-4 Corridor, and its 12 counties, is in Florida, and Brevard County is the eastern anchor.”

    The source you provided doesn’t support your statement. It divides Florida by media markets, not counties. And the figures provided are percentages of votes, not actual vote totals. The latter is what matters in a Presidential election.

    FWIW…

  • Ellegood wrote:

    The status of the EDA’s $35M is less clear. I don’t think it’s in NASA’s FY-12 request.

    I just found this on the EDA web site:

    http://www.eda.gov/SpaceCoastRIC

    It doesn’t have a date. Any idea when it might have been posted? It reads like they’re ready to spend, but at the bottom it says, “The funding for the FFO is contingent upon Congressional approval of the administration’s 2011 budget request.”

  • Jim Hillhouse

    Yeah, Major Tom, both 2008 Presidential candidates spent so much time in the Tampa-Orlando-Brevard area because it didn’t matter. Tell me, which Presidential campaign were you working on?

  • CNN’s Jack Cafferty on government space spending:

    http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/21/should-u-s-space-program-be-priority-in-budget-crisis/?hpt=T2

    Lawmakers from those states insist their support of projects like this one stems from the overall importance of the U.S. space program, and they say the value goes far beyond job creation in their own states.

    But you’ve got to wonder how much value a trip to the moon can really provide when the growing debt problem is sinking this country to new lows.

  • reader

    What Cafferty missed, is that there is no “trip to the moon” being funded. Just a make-work frankenrocket, cobbled together from old parts.

  • Major Tom

    “Yeah, Major Tom, both 2008 Presidential candidates spent so much time in the Tampa-Orlando-Brevard area because it didn’t matter.”

    Compared to what?

    According to the Washington Post, the winning campaign had Obama visit Tampa or Orlando only one time more than Miami or Miami Beach — 10 visits to Tampa/Orlando versus 9 visits to Miami/Miami Beach (out of 44 total campaign stops in Florida).

    projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/barack-obama/states/fl/

    Whoop-dee-freaking-doo. Since when does one more visit to a particular area of a state constitute “so much time” for a Presidential candidate making 44 visits in that state? That represents only about 2% of the total time Obama spent in Florida.

    Moreover, the Washington Post data shows that the Obama campaign never visited Titusville or any Space Coast location, which reiterates the point I made earlier — that the KSC workforce is so small that space issues are swamped by issues of importance to other demographics, even in the space launch state of Florida.

    “Tell me, which Presidential campaign were you working on?”

    Why does it matter? I’m either able to read my own sources and understand the difference between counties and media markets, percentages and votes, and so much or “one”.

    Or not.

    Oy vey…

  • Major Tom wrote:

    Moreover, the Washington Post data shows that the Obama campaign never visited Titusville or any Space Coast location, which reiterates the point I made earlier — that the KSC workforce is so small that space issues are swamped by issues of importance to other demographics, even in the space launch state of Florida.

    I’m sympathetic to your point of view, but Obama did visit Titusville on August 2, 2008. Here’s the video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdvAVSNRni4

    This is the speech the local GOP and space worker unions often misquote to falsely claim that Obama said he would keep Constellation going and that no one would be laid off.

  • Major Tom

    “Obama did visit Titusville on August 2, 2008″

    Looks like the Post missed that one. They have Obama in Orlando and St. Petersburg on August 1, 2008, but have nothing for August 2.

    FWIW…

  • E.P. Grondine

    AW –

    “Soviet style high-speed rail”

    You mean like Japan, France, and many other nations have?

    If you’ve ever ridden the Amtrak high speed versus any of the others you would know the difference.

    While this is going to be tough on short haul aircraft market, it has to be done, given oil supply and prices.

    Also, given the importance of tourism, snowbirds, and retirees to Florida’s economy, I think this decision may cost Scott re-election. His reasoning in this is completely baffling.

  • His reasoning in this is completely baffling.

    His reasoning is very simple: it’s a boondoggle that the state can’t afford.

  • vulture4

    As opposed to building 20 more lanes of toll roads, which the public will pay for in tolls (made invisible by automatic billing to a credit card, even though toll collection alone costs hundreds of millions), gas taxes and auto costs, as well as fatigue and the occasional fatal crash.

    Rick Scott reasoning is simple. He doesn’t need high speed rail. But then, he has a private jet. If you don’t have a private jet, you should consider high speed rail.

  • Rick Scott reasoning is simple. He doesn’t need high speed rail.

    Most people in Florida don’t need high-speed rail.

  • John Malkin

    I think federal high-speed rail money could be better spent elsewhere in the budget. America isn’t a train country like Japan or European countries, not since the car. Many Americans need to be forced via high gas prices to use public transportation. It would be better to focus our money on smart and electric cars.

    Also some of the money could be spent on advance space technologies and commercial crew systems. :)

  • vulture4

    Florida would be an ideal state for high speed rail since huge numbers of people already arrive and leave by ship and plane, having to rent cars to drive to lots where they catch the monorail to Disney or the busses at KSC, or park in huge long-term lots. A train linking the ports at Canaveral and Tampa with the Orlando airport, Disney and Sunrail would bring these people much closer to their destination before the need, if any, to drive.

    Autos are strangling Florida and the fatality rate from crashes is horrifying. Los Angeles, diffuse as it is, had an excellent public transit system until the oil and auto interests shut it down. Good public transit creates urban centers and transport hubs around its stations.

    A billion people travel by train and plane for every one that flies in space. The country and NASA need to focus on practical needs first or we will never be able to afford spaceflight.

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