In recent weeks Herman Cain has shot upwards from relative obscurity to the top tier of Republican presidential candidates, earning him increased attention in the media. Last Thursday he sat down for an interview with Erin Burnett of CNN, which touched upon a number of issues. Asked about what he thought the biggest foreign threat to America is, he talked about Iran and North Korea and argued they were reasons for building up ballistic missile defense systems, which led to this exchange:
BURNETT: Modern “Star Wars”?
CAIN: That’s not as far as — that’s not totally modern “Star Wars”. That’s enhancing capabilities that we already have. Phase two would be to have “Star Wars” type missile defense capabilities that are located in outer space, which is one of the reasons that I want to relaunch our space program and get away from this dependent upon Russia in order to be able to get into outer space.
Cain did not go into any additional detail about what other reasons he may have for “relaunching” the space program and how he would go about doing it. It’s also not clear from his response if he’s made the distinction about having to rely on Russia for human access to space, which is true and will be the case for the next several year, versus simply launching satellites (for missile defense and other applications), for which there are a number of American vehicles capable of doing so. (I tried contacting the Cain campaign through their web site, but their form generated the error message: “Failed to send your message. Please try later or contact administrator by other way.”)
Wow, he doesn’t even understand that by law NASA is civilian and doesn’t do military space R&D.
The optimism and energy of Cain would be a welcome reprieve from the hand wringing ineptitude of the current leadership. Any real American feels in his bones how wrong it is to rely on our Russian adversary. Herman Cain is a real American.
“Wow, he doesn’t even understand that by law NASA is civilian and doesn’t do military space R&D.”
Well, actually, they do in a shared way. There are a lot of joint S&T programs that NASA & DoD (e.g., AFRL) do for mutually beneficial technologies that could provide the best bang (figuratively speaking… well, maybe even literal for DoD) for the limited bucks.
Another advantage is that both agencies’ cultures balance each other: DoD’s cultural mindset is to hurry up and get these things developed and operationally fielded quickly; whereas NASA by its nature prefers to hang onto these programs in a never-ending “lab-build/test/tweak design/repeat” loop that won’t stop unless the Powers Above pry it out of their not-quite-cold-dead hands to put into a flight vehicle.
Also, don’t forget that outside of the Shuttle (and before that, the Saturn), NASA has been flying on military lineaged ELVs. The Falcon 9 and Taurus II will be for first new ELVs (or RLVs for the “rF9″) from the civilian/commercial sector to support NASA first (and DoD later).
So, I’d cut Cain some slack, for trying to answer a single political (i.e., the spooky “Star Wars”) question — and at least he did it by also including the mention of US space access (and indirectly, human access). Any candidate, w/o the aid of a large army of specialized staffers to prep them for very specific speaking events, would have to draw from their own internal knowledge (even pre-president Obama had to do the same).
@amighty
And of course if Cain comes out and says he supports abandoning programs like the SLS in favor of commercial spaceflight the first words out of your mouth will be that Cain is a traitor and a threat to the space program.
Yep. You see;
“…and get away from this dependent upon Russia in order to be able to get into outer space.”
…Is going to mean different things to different people. To most of us, it means more emphasis on Commercial Crew, to Windy and a few others, it’s got to be the resurrection of Constellation, splash ISS, and screw those ‘crony capitalists.’
amightywind wrote @ October 18th, 2011 at 8:57 am
“Herman Cain is a real American.”
I’m sure he’ll be glad to hear that you’re letting him into our exclusive club of 312,444,999 other “real American’s”…
Well I have to give Herman Cain a little credit. A few weeks ago I gave my rundown of assumptions on how the GOP candidates probably feel about space policy… my segment for Herman Cain was something to the effect of “Everybody knows it’s broken, so my plan is to fix it.” Must have been before the days of 9-9-9 or else I would have made a joke along those lines. But the fact that he’s even aware that we have a dependency on Russia for anything right now in space activities shows a level of awareness I didn’t expect from him. He hasn’t demonstrated a level of awareness that I want to see, but it’s a start.
Falcon 9 Heavy is obviously consistent with Mr. Cain’s strategy for American success. Its engine complement is practically an advertisement for his economic policy – 9-9-9 ! It’s a natural.
Of course, those engines are named for someone from fantasy or mythology who practices magic, and involve lots of flaming and hot gas. Not to say …
What, exactly, is meant by the phrase “real American?”
“Herman Cain is a real American.â€
Thank goodness.
Wait a minute, has anyone seen his birth certificate?
Militarization of space? That might free up more of US budget dollars for space and engage some serous competition with China and to a lesser degree Russia. We may already be in a military-space-race with China and they’re playing us dumb while they catch up “acquiring” our technologies and developing new ones. Seems too soon to bluntly, publicly, say so, but not too soon to position US industry to keep way ahead. Like to hear Cain say more…
“Phase two would be to have “Star Wars†type missile defense capabilities that are located in outer space, ”
Really? Weapons in Space?
Hey amightywind here is your opportunity at NASA Admin!
It looks better by the day for NASA… Oh well…
“So, I’d cut Cain some slack, ”
Are you really real?
Whatever.
Presidential Candidate Herman Cain said:
“…which is one of the reasons that I want to relaunch our space program and get away from this dependent upon Russia in order to be able to get into outer space.”
It truly does sound like, if elected, Cain will be supporting and possibly accelerating Obama’s free market Commercial Crew efforts. Too bad he has to trash a former Republican President (Bush 43) to make his point, but then again George W. Bush is not loved by any Republican presidential candidate.
I would hope he does some homework before taking any action.
Someone ought to point him toward ULA’s website and show him the paper on using Atlas 5 as a manned vehicle (something which commercial companies already are taking advantage of), as well as evolving it.
The TEA Party in Space cannot publicly endorse any candidate. However, we are working to help Mr. Cain on the issue of space. We have contacted some people inside the campaign. There are a lot of questions to work through. There is a lot of policy to discuss.
Some comments here are obviously over the top; however, some people bring up really good points. I would humbly suggest that you review our work. You all have my email, let me know what you think.
If email is not your thing we will be having a telecon this Thursday at 9pm EDT. You all are welcome to call in. We do have a Q&A at the end, this time, I promise.
Respectfully,
Andrew Gasser
TEA Party in Space
andrew@teainspace.com
I’ve seen nothing that suggests that Mr. Cain is any less of a lunatic throwback than the other major Republican candidates.
That people like Cain, Bachmann or Perry are even seen as fit for public office in America is a cause for great concern.
Das Boese wrote @ October 18th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
“I’ve seen nothing that suggests that Mr. Cain is any less of a lunatic throwback than the other major Republican candidates.
That people like Cain, Bachmann or Perry are even seen as fit for public office in America is a cause for great concern.”
Pretty much sums it up…Willard is likely to be the nominee. He has after all run for the office for over a decade and its “his time” in the way that the GOP figures things; even though he is disliked to hated by about 60-70 percent of the base. A base which grows ever more nutty as the days go off the calender.
However…Cain has in my view a chance (orput another way there is a geniune shot for an “anti Willard” )
This will be a person who is good at (to borrow a phrase from Morning Joe in his Politico.com column) the reality show that is now the base of the GOP. This is a group of people who need a leader who will not tackle real issues or even attempt substantive solutions to the problems of America…but one who will try “solutions as they should be” even if lacking in reality. Cain’s tax plan is like that. First it generates no where near enough revenue and second it really puts the onus on the middle to poorer groups in The Republic, the groups who have been shafted in ever increasing amounts over the last two decades…and who really caught it in the last decade.
Talk to Cain’s supporters about “999” and they are sure that they will pay less taxes (“Only 9 percent”) even though they seem to have no clue that cumulative it will be a greater share of their income…cant convince them otherwise.
Cain takes this tack in his space politics…and you see useful idiots who pick the chant up.
First there is the slam at “relying on the Russians” as if this is some great national sin (see “Winds” comments for illustrative support) and then we need to seque into the right wing fantasy “Star Wars”…aside from the notion of the “Star wars” systems not working, no one can quite seem to say who we would be defending against…although there is the notion of spending nearly a trillion dollars to defend against a country like North Korea which has a GNP of pennies.
Cain is just the latest (and so far the most successful) candidate who is appealing to the really ignorant class in American society. A recent poll of Cain’s supporters as a “control” question asked if Americans had found WMD in Iraq. 72 percent of Cains supporters said yes.
Reality is not a place that these people are happy in RGO
“I want to relaunch our space program and get away from this dependent upon Russia in order to be able to get into outer space.”
Griffin (and thus Bush) left us dependent upon Russia in 3 ways with the Ares I fiasco, ending the Shuttle, not funding commercial crew, etc:
– dependent on Russian Progress cargo flights to the ISS
– dependent on Russian Soyuz crew flights to the ISS and crew rescue or return flights from the ISS
– dependent on Russia for Pu-238 for outer planet missions
In addition, although not strictly a NASA issue, Griffin chose an exploration plan that did nothing to develop a U.S.-built version of the Russian RD-180 engine, or a U.S. developed engine that can replace the RD-180. That leaves us dependent upon Russia for the Atlas V rockets that launch the bulk of our military, intelligence, and other critical satellites, as well as NASA and other missions.
The original Obama proposal would have eliminated our dependence on Russia in these 4 areas:
– It accelerated U.S. commercial cargo services to the ISS, and added tests to that program.
– It initiated U.S. commercial crew services to the ISS.
– It proposed U.S. Pu-238 production.
– It proposed a U.S. developed rocket engine in the RD-180 class.
Congress grudgingly went along with the commercial cargo support, started but underfunded commercial crew, balked at U.S. Pu-238 production, and failed to develop an RD-180 class engine. Meanwhile, it emphasized an extremely expensive new rocket, the SLS, that apparently won’t deliver crew to space until 2021. If all goes well.
Obama’s plan to reduce our dependence on Russia was right, but he did not, or was not able to, following through on too many of these space issues.
If a President Cain really wants to eliminate our dependence on Russia, he will:
– continue to use commercial cargo services, and perhaps even make them more robust (add U.S. commercial crew vehicles to our cargo suite, fund a U.S. autonomous rendezvous and docking vehicle / tug, augment U.S. cargo capabilities, etc)
– fully fund U.S. commercial crew transport and rescue services
– fully fund U.S. Pu-238 production
– fully fund a U.S. developed RD-180 class rocket engine usable by Atlas V while solving associated affordability problems (i.e. counter lower Russian engineer costs), or at least U.S. production of the RD-180 … or else fully support alternatives to the Atlas V for military, intelligence, and other launches (I will consider Delta IV as not addressing this because of redundant launch requirements and current Delta IV cost)
It will not be enough to just propose these things, either. He will need to fight and win against the parochial Congressional interests on the space committees that don’t care about dependence on Russia for these things, and don’t care about scarce U.S. space program dollars going to Russia, as long as they still get a big chunk of dollars in their states for things like SLS that give little or no benefits to the U.S.
“That people like Cain, Bachmann or Perry are even seen as fit for public office in America is a cause for great concern.”
Ha!
We who have lived through Johnson through Obama beg to differ.
Well no, wait, actually I agree with you. We who have lived through Johnson through Obama have had great concern the entire way. It’s why we have lots of ulcers in the USA.
The answer of course, is to drink a lot. In this we are second rate to the Russians.
“Herman Cain wants to “relaunch our space programâ€
Ahhh, yes… the famed “Two, One, Zero” plan.
Robert G. Oler wrote @ October 18th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
“Cain is just the latest (and so far the most successful) candidate who is appealing to the really ignorant class in American society.”
Ignorance is bliss. We call it Reaganomics.
red wrote @ October 18th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
That is an excellent summary of what we would need to do to get away from being “dependent upon Russia”. Too bad no one in congress is serious about it.
@ Andrew Gasser wrote @ October 18th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Sorry Andrew but weapons in space simply is not acceptable nor excusable. What kind of president do you want? You don’t need to be a space expert to know that this is nuts!
Given the priority level space in general and NASA in specific take in presidential politics, I generally don’t make too harsh of an evaluation of a candidate based on their space policy pre-primary. Frankly, most if not all of them have essentially no understanding or interest in NASA at this point.
However, I will say waponization of space is a dangerous territory to walk. This is especially true given that the Russians and Chinese have reduced their arsenals to as much of show pieces as we have. North Korea and Iran both have capabilities that should give us pause, but neither stands to pose any serious threat to us or our allies any time in the coming decades. Certainly not enough to justify Star Wars or anything like it. In the cold war, when we the various nuclear powers were all increasing their stockpiles, doing regular tests, and blustering about on the floor of the UN, at least there was reason to be worried. No such credible threat exists now.
To the remainder of his point, his justification doesn’t speak at all to any support of SLS. If military capability is his motivation in space, a super-heavy is pointless. The ability to launch or destroy nuclear missiles can easily be accomplished by much, much smaller devices. The same is true of anti-satellite tech. There is just no need for it. And given that Cain leans heavier on his private commerce street cred than anyone else in the field, I suspect he would be far more likely to be a ComSpace booster than a BGR (Big Government Rocket) booster (pun intended). Picking BGR to the detriment of ComSpace would be so far outside of his particular character as a candidate I suspect he would do so merely as a ploy to get past the primary, a la McCain’s entire campaign.
Andrew Gasser wrote @ October 18th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
anyone who argues in any fashion for “SDI” or “Star Wars” or whatever notion one wants to put on the goofy idea of weaponizing space is in this time period goofy.
The problem in the US economy is to large measure that we are spending money lots of money on things which have almost no value to society, civilization or even American history. I dont know exactly what the total so far on “Bush’s wars that Obama has continued” but its in the many trillions…The US, Russia, and Chinese have figured it out; nuclear war is unwinnable in the conventional “win” sense of war…and to spend billions/hundreds of billions/trillions today on a “space shield” is simply asking for another arms race…or worse is simply asking to spend money the US does not have on a system that it doesnt need.
There are regional “nuke power” issues and they are going to be challenging over the next decade. The “nuclear farce” countries, countries with nuclear firecrackers that are more statements of “manhood” then anything else will not bat an eye with “Star Wars” because it would have no affect on them.
I dont know if Cain is just uninformed or is pandering to right wing idiots whose testosterone runs high until they actually have to think about going to combat (go see Whittington’s home page where he routinely post links to shows which are “muscle shows”)..but in any event both take him out of the serious space person. You might be able to help him become serious; but as long as support for “space weapons” is part of his rhetoric, he is simply one of the two choices above. RGO
Herman Cain is right on the money. I wish some of the other candidates would just speak out against Obama’s Space Policy, and state in clear English, just what a freaking decade-long debacle of foreign-space-access-dependence that the President has put the once-mighty American space program into. We were headed towards the Moon, for a new great round of exploration, before this president first took office. The reason there is a legion of people like me, who totally hate this commercial space direction, is because NASA apparently had to give up so much of the grand & noble stuff, just so that these crony capitalists can set up shop at flying millionaires out 200 miles up for ISS “vacation” stays!
It would be nice to have NASA do all of the grand and noble stuff, but where is the cash to pay for it? If we permanently increase NASA budget there would be all kinds of things we could do, but seeing how much of an unpopular proposition that is, it just isnt going to happen anytime soon. The number one barrier to space access is the cost/launch and the only way those numbers are going to come down is through the commercialization of space whether you like it or not. 2 launches/year of the SLS monstrosity is not going to put a colony on the moon. Further- moon base proponents also like to ignore the costs associated with that. If the ISS cost 100B+ what is a moon colony going to cost and where is the public support for that? Especially with the economy still tanking.
Aremis Asling wrote:
“And given that Cain leans heavier on his private commerce street cred than anyone else in the field, I suspect he would be far more likely to be a ComSpace booster than a BGR (Big Government Rocket) booster (pun intended). Picking BGR to the detriment of ComSpace would be so far outside of his particular character as a candidate I suspect he would do so merely as a ploy to get past the primary”
He’s a politician, so follow the money. If he starts recieving money from ATK, Lockheed Martin et cetera, you will see his space “philosophy” evolve to include them.
I thought Bigelow had plans for a lunar base, made from his inflatables? This would be a move in the right direction. If only someone would do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Dennis
“This would be a move in the right direction. If only someone would do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
And something is being done. One step at a time we will get back to the lunar surface, rather than try to do it in one slap happy underfunded crash program with the BMFR SLS. The latter method will never allow such a landing because it won’t be affordable with any budget the Congress is liable to allocate.
@Chris Castro
“We were headed towards the Moon, for a new great round of exploration, before this president first took office.”
Yes, indeed. Just as sure as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real and OJ didn’t do it.
“The reason there is a legion of people like me, who totally hate this commercial space direction, is because NASA apparently had to give up so much of the grand & noble stuff, just so that these crony capitalists can set up shop at flying millionaires out 200 miles up for ISS “vacation†stays!”
OOOOH! Be careful. You’re stealing some of ablastofhotair’s signature moronic platitudes. If you really give a damn about America’s future in space you’ll take the blinders off.
@ Rick Boozer wrote @ October 20th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
“Just as sure as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real and OJ didn’t do it.”
Rick what’s wrong with you? Okay OJ may have done it, possibly. BUT Santa Claus? The Easter Bunny???? Come on I saw them both with my own eyes.
I see that even here, the most “hate speech” is directed towards Cain, Republicans, the Tea Party, and, well, pretty much anyone who didn’t vote for Obamarama, and – gee, what a surprise – it comes from liberals, who can be relied on to scream “hate speech” and “racists!” as a Pavlovian reaction anytime someone crticizes Saint Obamarama. But I digress…
My main observation is that this country CLEARLY is so dysfunctional in so many ways that we can’t even have a reasonably civil conversation about space access capability. This is appalling…
At least Cain is the first GOP candidate I’ve heard mention space and while his grasp of space issues surely is less than most AIAA members’, I’d bet most of the bloggers above – especially the really snarky ones – would get big ‘ol Fs on tests of their knowledge of other subject areas that are important to millions of other Americans.
If we can’t do better than the discourse above, we might as well as buy prayer rugs now – before the rush – and start learning Farsi, Mandarin and Russian – just to hedge our bets on who takes us over.
Leon McKinney wrote @ October 24th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Are you a drive-by commenter, or do you want to get down into the details and explain your points of view?
If you don’t respond, we’ll have to assume you came here to contribute rhetoric, but nothing substantial.
If you do respond, you can do your part to elevate the discourse by laying out the rationale for whatever it is that you support. I’ll even go first – I support those things that lower the cost to access space. Notice there is no political affiliation there, and I really don’t care which party someone is from that shares my views. There are Republicans & Democrats that share those views, and Republicans & Democrats that are idiots for not sharing them. Get the point?
Now maybe you’re a Cain supporter – and that’s OK – but until there is a little “meat on the bones” for what he is saying, he’s just another politician flapping his gums on something that he’s not known to be an expert at.
So join the conversation, tell us what you believe, and stick around to not only defend it but win over converts.