Campaign '12

Former astronaut Jemison to campaign for Obama on Monday

The Florida campaign for President Barack Obama announced Sunday that former astronaut Mae Jemison, the first African-American woman in space, will campaign for the president’s reelection on Florida’s Space Coast on Monday. Jemison, according to the media advisory, will tour Advanced Magnet Lab, a small business in Palm Bay, Florida, that “embodies the importance of President Obama’s space exploration policies for Florida,” in the words of the statement. After the tour, Jemison and Mark Santi, the president of Advanced Magnet Lab, will speak to the media “to discuss how President Obama’s policies ensure that Kennedy Space Center will continue to make history as America’s spaceport during the new chapter in space exploration that our nation is embarking upon.”

While Advanced Magnet Lab may embody “the importance of President Obama’s space exploration policies for Florida,” space appears to be only a small part of its overall portfolio. The company mentions that superconducting magnets offer “many attractive attributes for space exploration”, but its space-related business appears to be limited to a contract with NASA to develop a model for high-power superconducting machines and a partnership with a NASA/JSC researcher on a NIAC grant to study the use of superconducting magnets in radiation shielding systems.

Jemison, as a NASA astronaut, flew on the STS-47 shuttle mission in 1992, her sole spaceflight. Her current activities include serving as the leader of the 100 Year Starship Initiative as part of the team that won the $500,000 grant from DARPA earlier this year to help start the effort.

54 comments to Former astronaut Jemison to campaign for Obama on Monday

  • DCSCA

    “The Florida campaign for President Barack Obama announced Sunday that former astronaut Mae Jemison, the first African-American woman in space, will campaign for the president’s reelection on Florida’s Space Coast on Monday… Jemison, as a NASA astronaut, flew on the STS-47 shuttle mission in 1992, her sole spaceflight.”

    Which makes her, as the late Walter Cronkite would say, ‘a footnote to history.’ And that’s truly, the way it is.

  • Robert G. Oler

    And a OK part in Star Trek the Next…(of course there was that interaction with the Kemah police but wow who is counting)…RGO

  • Heinrich Monroe

    Which makes her, as the late Walter Cronkite would say, ‘a footnote to history.’ And that’s truly, the way it is.

    Stanford grad, Dartmouth and Cornell faculty, physician, successful technology entrepreneur, Peace Corps volunteer, space visionary …

    Gosh, but maybe she’s a footnote that people will truly want to read.

  • David Teek

    I recently saw Dr. Jamison on C-Span testifying as part of a US Senate Panel on Title IX. She was very impressive.

    I used to get angry at people like DSCSA and AMW who think think they somehow advance their arguments by misrepresenting the position and actions of those they disagree with. So often, they resort to attacking and belittling the character of those that disagree with them, rather than engage in a debate based upon merits of their positions, and clearly observable facts.

    I used to get angry, but really, now I just pity them.

    From Wikipedia on Dr. Jamison’s post NASA endeavors:

    In 1993 Jemison founded her own company, the Jemison Group that researches, markets, and develops science and technology for daily life.

    In 1993, Jemison also appeared on an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. LeVar Burton found out, from a friend that Jemison was a big Star Trek fan and asked her if she’d be interested in being on the show, and she said, “Yeah!!” The result was an appearance as Lieutenant Palmer in the episode “Second Chances”. Jemison has the distinction of being the first real astronaut ever to appear on Star Trek.

    Jemison founded the Dorothy Jemison Foundation for Excellence and named the foundation in honor of her mother. “My parents were the best scientists I knew,” Jemison said, “because they were always asking questions.” One of the projects of Jemison’s foundation is The Earth We Share (TEWS), an international science camp where students, ages 12 to 16, work to solve current global problems, like “How Many People Can the Earth Hold” and “Predict the Hot Public Stocks of The Year 2030.”

    The four-week residential program helps students build critical thinking and problem solving skills through an experiential curriculum. Camps have been held at Dartmouth College, Colorado School of Mines, Choate Rosemary Hall and other sites around the United States. TEWS was introduced internationally to high school students in day programs in South Africa and Tunisia. In 1999, TEWS was expanded overseas to adults at the Zermatt Creativity and Leadership Symposium held in Switzerland.

    In 1999, Jemison founded BioSentient Corp and has been working to develop a portable device that allows mobile monitoring of the involuntary nervous system. BioSentient has obtained the license to commercialize NASA’s space-age technology known as Autogenic Feedback Training Exercise (AFTE), a patented technique that uses biofeedback and autogenic therapy to allow patients to monitor and control their physiology as a possible treatment for anxiety and stress related disorders. “BioSentient is examining AFTE as a treatment for anxiety, nausea, migraine and tension headaches, chronic pain, hypertension and hypotension, and stress-related disorders,” says Jemison.

    In 2006, Jemison participated in African American Lives, a PBS television miniseries hosted by Henry Louis Gates, Jr., that traced the family history of eight famous African Americans using historical research and genetic techniques. Jemison found to her surprise that she is 13% East Asian in her genetic makeup.

    On February 17, 2008 Jemison was the featured speaker for the 100th anniversary of the founding of the Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority. Jemison paid tribute to Alpha Kappa Alpha by carrying the sorority’s banner with her on her shuttle flight. Jemison’s space suit is a part of the sorority’s national traveling Centennial Exhibit. Jemison is an honorary member of Alpha Kappa Alpha, a sorority founded in 1908 at Howard University to address the social issues of the time and promote scholarship among black women.

    The Des Moines Register interviewed Jemison on October 16, 2008 and reported that she has mixed feelings about the term “role model”. “Here’s the deal: Everybody’s a role model. … Role models can be good or bad, positive or negative.”

    Jemison is an active public speaker who appears before private and public groups promoting science and technology as well as providing an inspirational and educational message for young people. “Having been an astronaut gives me a platform,” says Jemison,”but I’d blow it if I just talked about the Shuttle. “Jemison uses her platform to speak out on the gap in the quality of health-care between the United States and the Third World. “Martin Luther King … didn’t just have a dream, he got things done.”

    Jemison is a Professor-at-Large at Cornell University and was a professor of Environmental Studies at Dartmouth College from 1995 to 2002. Jemison continues to advocate strongly in favor of science education and getting minority students interested in science. She sees science and technology as being very much a part of society, and African-Americans as having been deeply involved in U.S. science and technology from the beginning.

    Jemison participated with First Lady Michelle Obama in a forum for promising girls in the Washington, D.C. public schools in March 2009.

  • DCSCA

    @Heinrich Monroe wrote @ July 1st, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    =yawn= Take it up with Guy Bluford– or for that matter any of the living Apollo crews– footnotes to history all, save, Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins and thanks to Hollywood, Jim Lovell.

  • Bennett

    David Teek wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 12:18 am

    Excellent comment. Thanks for taking the time. The contrast in quality between your comment and the trolls you name is no surprise to any who read this blog.

  • amightywind

    Wow! There’s a shock. Birds of a feather…

  • David Teek wrote:

    I used to get angry at people like DSCSA and AMW who think think they somehow advance their arguments by misrepresenting the position and actions of those they disagree with. So often, they resort to attacking and belittling the character of those that disagree with them, rather than engage in a debate based upon merits of their positions, and clearly observable facts.

    Trolls are offensive because they’re seeking attention. They don’t care what you think. They just want attention.

    That’s why I never respond to them. If everyone would adopt that policy, maybe the trolls would go somewhere else for their attention. Maybe not. But at least it would put an end to the mudslinging and we’d spend more time actually talking about issues instead of the trolls — which is what they want.

  • vulture4

    Jemison is a very capable person, like most of the astronauts. I would like to know more about the magnet work, and I hope she gets more opportunity to communicate with the public.

    However I must admit that I do not think space is going to be a very significant campaign issue even here in Florida. People just don’t care that much about it. We, the advocate community, should be doing more to build interest and support, but to do that we need a space program that produces practical benefits for America.

  • Robert G. Oler

    David Teek wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 12:18 am..yeah she is very accomplished…she is an impressive person as well. RGO

  • Coastal Ron

    DCSCA wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 1:44 am

    footnotes to history all, save, Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins and thanks to Hollywood, Jim Lovell.

    No they are footnotes too. No more chapters are being added to their histories – they are past the point of doing, and all they do now is talk about what they did.

    Jemison is still doing:

    – Professor-at-Large at Cornell University

    – Founder of BioSentient, which is a medical devices company focused on advanced ambulatory physiologic monitoring and physiologic training to improve health and human performance.

    – Leader of the 100 Year Starship Initiative

    There are people that talk, and people that do. She is the later.

  • amightywind

    Trolls are offensive because they’re seeking attention. They don’t care what you think. They just want attention.

    Without the so called trolls, spacepolitics.com would be a grayscape of newspace propaganda. A diversity of opinion is a good thing.

    For the record, I find Dr. Jemison’s academic accomplishments laudable. I find her race aware politics to be grating just as Obama’s are.

  • John F.

    Which makes her, as the late Walter Cronkite would say, ‘a footnote to history.’ And that’s truly, the way it is.

    Tell me then.. if she is a footnote to history, what does that make the commenter?

  • DCSCA

    @David Teek wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 12:18 am
    @Bennett wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 7:55 am

    =yawn= Which changes nothing.

    In space politics, Jem’s ‘claim to fame’ – her lone spaceflight in ’92- to pitch matters spacial for the Florida O-Team remains ‘a footnote to history,’ as the late, great Walter Cronkite would say.

    “She was very impressive.” =yawn= Pretty much ALL people willing to risk life and limb to rid a shuttle stack– even once as a mission specialist– are impressive people. (“It’s getting them to risk it again that’s hard, because they know what’s going to happen to them,” quips Story Musgrave.) But she is not Sally Ride. Nor Guy Bluford. Or Fred Gregory.

    There’s little point in posting competing Wiki bios on Jeff’s site as the 11 crew, Lovell, etc., have equally accomplished, if not longer bios in life to fawn over. All shuttle crews, (save the few politicians and possibly New Hampshire’s McAuluffe) carried laudable credentials through life and into space- it is what helped qualify them for the ride in the first place. Jem’s one spaceflight, two decades ago– on STS-47– an obscure Spacelab mission- on which she participated as a ‘mission specialist,’ is a footnote to history, whether you or other NewSpace trolls like it or not. But if you’re into perusing and highlightinng shuttle crew bios, go to astronaut Alan Poindexter’s, who was killed in an accident July 1. He accomplished much and experienced what few humans ever will in our times- yet his flights remain footnotes to history, just like Jem’s. RIP, Dex.

    Star Trek- Next Gen… =eyeroll= Pathetic.

    @Coastal Ron wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 10:53 am

    “No they are footnotes too.”

    Except they’re not. Challenging the fact that the 11 crew and Lovell aren’t ‘do-ers’ is simply laughable. Even you can do better than that.

    @Stephen C. Smith wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 8:29 am

    =yawn= Don’t be so hard on yourself, Stephen, realists care very much about what NewSpacers are chumming as you troll for support and financing, but smart fish don’t take the bait as it’s a shinny lure; a diversionary hook in the Age of Austerity frm developing long term, BEO, government funded and managed space ops.

    @amightywind wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    “I find Dr. Jemison’s academic accomplishments laudable. I find her race aware politics to be grating just as Obama’s are.” They’re in a close race in a state they need and she’s on the team as an ‘O-ringer,’ no more, no less– where the only colors that matter are red and blue.

  • DCSCA

    @John F. wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    “Tell me then.. if she is a footnote to history, what does that make the commenter?”

    One of the millions of American taxpayers who paid for her ticket to ride.

  • Heinrich Monroe

    Tell me then.. if she is a footnote to history, what does that make the commenter?

    One of the millions of American taxpayers who paid for her ticket to ride.

    Deep in the bowels of unread footnotes to history. Take a bow.

    I find her race aware politics to be grating just as Obama’s are.

    “Race aware politics”? Can you point to words from her about politics that can be interpreted in that way? Thought not. You’re just grated by the fact that her color is the same as his. Easily grated, I guess. I’d find it more grating if she were, say, green or purple.

  • vulture4

    “I find her race aware politics to be grating just as Obama’s are.”

    I just came from a talk she gave here in Florida. She was introduced as, among other things, “the first African-American woman in space.” And that was the last time race was mentioned. She did not refer to race even once. She did talk about the skyrocketing cost of education and how difficult it was, as a result, for American students now to get the opportunities she had, and how cuts to public education were making it harder for America to compete.

    I think those who are looking for people with “race aware politics” should look in the mirror.

  • Coastal Ron

    DCSCA wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    Challenging the fact that the 11 crew and Lovell aren’t ‘do-ers’ is simply laughable.

    As you point out, Jemison’s space fame came from a Shuttle trip 20 years ago, but the Apollo crews biggest claim to fame came 40 years ago.

    Since then the Apollo crews have all retired – they were do-ers, but now they are not. Now they are just making footnotes to their 40-year old claims to fame.

    Jemison started new ventures since leaving NASA, and is still contributing to the space arena as a business owner and space industry leader – far from being in your original assertion ‘a footnote to history.’

    Funny how you are so protective of your Apollo heroes, but so dismissive of anyone that came after them. Too bad for you, since the next people going into space won’t be octogenarians drinking Ensure. ;-)

  • Heinrich Monroe

    The Apollo 11 crew was distinguished and honored because they were consummate risk takers. They did something very hard and quite scary before anyone else did. They certainly were do-ers in 1969, but what happened after that? Neil Armstrong hid under a log at the University of Cincinnati. Buzz Aldrin relished his notoriety, and polished his image. Michael Collins actually exercised real leadership at NASM, and went on to be a successful entrepreneur. None of these things are bad, but did they quite live up to our reverence for them? Probably not. Few astronauts do. That’s what happens to people who we revere because they are so good at managing risk, and they stop facing up to risk.

    I like my heroes to live up to their heroism. I like them to continue to be heroes, in their own way. Proudly and nobly.

  • josh

    just what are you compensating for, dcsca… that’s what i wonder

  • Bennett

    josh wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    We all know what he’s compensating for. Thus his loathing for big rockets that actually work.

  • DCSCA

    @Heinrich Monroe wrote @ July 2nd, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    The Apollo 11 crew was distinguished and honored because they were consummate risk takers

    No. They ve been ‘honored’ throguh the years– because they were first.

  • Heinrich Monroe

    No. They ve been ‘honored’ throguh the years– because they were first.

    And therin lay the risk that they took. That’s WHY being first is so important when you’re doing something hard.

    Each of these men were military combat aviators and or test pilots. In doing so, they lived with extreme risk and, in response, showed notable courage. But show me one courageous thing any of these folks did after 1969. Courage is a response to risk, though not necessarily risk to ones life.

    Again, these are very honorable and accomplished men, but it’s a shame that being a do-er in 1969 didn’t lead to them being do-ers after that. Now, maybe they figured they could never top what they did in 1969. So why even try? But the honor, respect, and even reverence they garnered could have been put to more use to the country that gave it to them.

    Although I don’t agree with his politics much, Harrison Schmidt is one of the few Apollo astronauts who really gave back, building constructively on his notoriety.

  • vulture4

    Good point. There are plenty of people willing to take risks. Although both Armstrong and John Young (on STS-1) took considerable risks, they were also people who worked very hard to control or reduce every risk they could. They took no unnecessary risks.

    Armstrong should be remembered for being first, but that does not make him any more likely than anyone else to be right today on a political matter.

  • amightywind

    serving as the leader of the 100 Year Starship Initiative as part of the team that won the $500,000 grant from DARPA earlier this year to help start the effort

    No wonder she is performing for Obama. Is there no one without their hand in the till in this administration?

  • Heinrich Monroe

    Ooooh. A $500,000 grant from DARPA constitutes a “hand in the till”? Lucky for us she has pretty dainty hands. Thimble in the till, perhaps? Properly burdened, we’re talking three or four person-years of someone reasonably talented, maybe? A marching army that ain’t.

    But of course, those NASA contractors with their bucket-loaders in the till, using the money they get, in part, to fund their K Street operations, have other ways to provide political assistance.

  • Malmesbury

    Ooooh. A $500,000 grant from DARPA constitutes a “hand in the till”?

    It’s disgusting – if she was part of a proper Space/Defense contractor and got $500 million, that would have been decent.

    People who aren’t part of The Upper Ten Thousand getting small amounts of money for doing stuff will destroy the US. Next they’ll be allowing free market capitalism – pure communism!!!!!!

  • Heinrich Monroe

    Yeah, $500K is hardly a respectable haul for someone mining the till. She’s obviously a minor player in the space business. Makes Obama look like he doesn’t have any respect for the real heroes of aerospace plunder. He wants to be endorsed by someone with a few pennies in her pocket, who managed to hire a couple of people? She’s going to try to communicate “the importance of President Obama’s space exploration policies for Florida”? Horrors.

    What could Obama be thinking by seeking her endorsement!? I mean, all she has going for her is vision, ideas and inspiration.

  • William Mellberg

    Heinrich Monroe wrote:

    “Neil Armstrong hid under a log at the University of Cincinnati.”

    Professor Armstrong spent the better part of a decade teaching aerospace engineering at the University of Cincinnati where he imparted his knowledge and experience to the next generation. How is that hiding under a log? Dr. Mae Jemison is also a college professor. Dr. Harrison Schmitt, the last man (and first scientist) to set foot on the Moon is an adjunct professor at the University of Wisconsin. And several retired cosmonauts, including Alexei Yeliseyev, became university professors, as did Vasili Mishin following his departure as head of Korolev’s OKB-1 design bureau. Frankly, I thought Neil Armstrong did a wonderful thing when he decided to teach young people. But you seem to think he was hiding.

    It never ceases to amaze me how so many people accept the myth that Mr. Armstrong is a hermit who came out of “hiding” to offer his testimony on Capitol Hill about the current status of America’s space program. Over the years, Neil Armstrong has been a familiar figure at aerospace meetings across the country and around the globe. But he does not seek the limelight, and he has avoided (appropriately) ‘cashing in’ on his fame and his unique place in history. Mr. Armstrong has remained an active participant in the aerospace industry, and he is no stranger to aerospace professionals. You could have found him speaking at universities, museums and industry gatherings over the years … but not on Dancing with the Stars, the Tonight Show or The Simpsons. That simply isn’t his style. And I, for one, am quite pleased that Mr. Armstrong has never been a publicity hound. Most people are unaware that he has traveled halfway around the globe on many occasions to visit our men and women in uniform. One year ago, Armstrong, Lovell and Cernan made another trip to Afghanistan to support the troops. That isn’t hiding under a log.

    On the way home, Mr. Armstrong stopped in Australia where he gave an extended interview to his friend, Alex Malley …

    http://thebottomline.cpaaustralia.com.au/

    Anyone interested in history — or in learning a little more about Neil Armstrong — will enjoy these four segments.

    As for Dr. Mae Jemison …

    She is both well-known and highly-respected here in her hometown of Chicago. Like many gifted individuals, she is multi-talented and is remembered for her love of music, dance and the theatre almost as much as she is known for her achievements in science, medicine and space. Like every American, she has the right to support whomever she wishes in our election process.

    It is interesting to note that for the six-year period from 1977 to 1983, there were two retired astronauts serving in the United States Senate. John Glenn (Democrat from Ohio) was the first American to orbit the Earth. Harrison Schmitt (Republican from New Mexico) walked on the Moon.

    You might recall that John Swigert (Apollo 13) was elected to the United States House of Representatives from his home state of Colorado. He was a Republican. Sadly, Congressman-elect Swigert succumbed to cancer before he was able to take his seat. If you have passed through Denver International Airport, you might have seen Jack’s statue in Concourse B. I have passed it many a time myself.

    Jack Lousma, a Skylab and Space Shuttle astronaut, was the Republican nominee from Michigan for the U.S. Senate in 1984. He lost to the incumbent Democrat, Carl Levin, who still holds the seat today.

  • Heinrich Monroe

    Professor Armstrong spent the better part of a decade teaching aerospace engineering at the University of Cincinnati where he imparted his knowledge and experience to the next generation. How is that hiding under a log?

    With all due respect to him, given the enormous reverence, gravitas, and awe that Neil Armstrong was properly branded with, you’d have thought that he could have done more than what tens of thousands of college professors do. Imparting knowledge to the next generation is a noble profession. But Neil Armstrong never used that reverence, gravitas or awe.

    It’s not about “cashing in” on notoriety. It’s about using that notoriety to do things that others could not. He didn’t.

    John Glenn is an excellent example of how an astronaut hero used his notoriety to achieve new things, and made his experience the foundation of a career of real leadership. John Glenn chose to work to remain a hero. He didn’t “cash in” on notoriety. He built on it.

    Mind you, I have enormous respect for Neil Armstrong. He chose to keep his heroism as part of history, and that’s a choice that is certainly defensible. In fact, he left his history almost entirely to the historians. He rarely gave any interviews.

    Armstrong was brought up as a counterpoint to someone whose experience was labelled a “footnote to history”. Armstrong’s history was momentous, but it was forty years ago.

  • William Mellberg

    Heinrich Monroe wrote:

    “Although I don’t agree with his politics much, Harrison Schmidt is one of the few Apollo astronauts who really gave back, building constructively on his notoriety.”

    Notoriety? I hope you were simply misusing that word as so many people do. ‘Notoriety’ implies fame of the negative sort (think of the word ‘notorious’). I’m sure you simply meant ‘fame.’

    In any case, I would certainly agree with you that Harrison Schmitt has really given back. He is still active in public service and space science. And he still inspires young people …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKa7pN8pUIQ&feature=player_embedded

    For the record, I am the co-editor of Dr. Schmitt’s website/blog. We have been friends for many years, and he wrote the foreword to my 1997 book, Moon Missions. Dr. Schmitt recently asked me to write an eyewitness account of the Apollo 17 launch for his website …

    http://www.americasuncommonsense.com/blog/wp-content/pdfFiles/Mellberg_Apollo17LaunchArticle.pdf

    Of course, this year marks the 40th anniversary of Apollo 17.

  • William Mellberg

    Heinrich Monroe wrote:

    “… you’d have thought that he [Neil Armstrong] could have done more than what tens of thousands of college professors do.”

    He did do more. A lot more. But it was within the aerospace industry as an aerospace professional — applying his experience and expertise to the fields he knows best. You might recall that Mr. Armstrong was co-chair of the Rogers Commission — the Challenger accident investigation committee. He was also Chairman of the Board of EDO, as well as CTA (two aviation-related enterprises).

    If you want some insights on Neil Armstrong, you might start here:

    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/07/18/loc_neil_armstrong_the.html

    Then buy a copy of “First Man” (Armstrong’s authorized biography).

    In an age where so many people seek the spotlight and their 15 minutes of fame, I, for one, appreciate Mr. Armstrong’s modesty and humility. As Mike Collins opined in his book, Carrying the Fire, I can’t think of a better person to have represented our species as the first human to set foot on another world. Neil Armstrong has handled his fame with great dignity. Moreover, I think he would tell you that he was just one of more than 400,000 people who made that first step possible. Therefore, to focus all of the attention on one man is to ignore all of the other men and women who worked so long and so hard to achieve the goal of the Apollo Program.

    In some ways, Mr. Armstrong’s place in history was just the luck of the draw based on NASA crew assignments and rotations. However, he was in the mix because of his skill and experience — both of which came into play during the final phase of Eagle’s descent to the lunar surface.

  • DCSCA

    @William Mellberg wrote @ July 4th, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    “Then buy a copy of “First Man” (Armstrong’s authorized biography).”

    Precisely. Those who beleive Armstrong sequested himself on a college campus 35 years ago and has done nothing since are sorely in the dark and present a superficial, passing perspective.

    “In some ways, Mr. Armstrong’s place in history was just the luck of the draw …”

    Indeed, he said so himself in the ’60 Minutes’ interview aired in 2005 in conjunction w/t publisging of the autobiography and he’s aware of the role chance played and conducted himself accordingly- to his credit– over the decades. But when he speaks on maters spacial, his words are measured and articulate- and surprisingly consistent over the years..

  • DCSCA

    @William Mellberg wrote @ July 4th, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    Pass along greetings to Dr. Schmidt- and mention that his capacity to describe where he was- that is, give it “context” – w/t the aid of television, helped bring Taurus- Littrow ‘alive’ for us all as a defined place of interest, with recognizable features, beyond the mystery of an abstract point on a lunar map. Which is among the famed ‘intangibles’ often referenced by his companion on Apollo 17, Gene Cernan. By coincidence, the local PBS station is airing a special tonight, July 4, on Apollo 17. Should make for out-of-this-world viewing post fireworks, capping off a grand July 4.

  • DCSCA

    @ William Mellberg wrote @ July 4th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Postscript.

    “It never ceases to amaze me how so many people accept the myth that Mr. Armstrong is a hermit who came out of “hiding” to offer his testimony on Capitol Hill about the current status of America’s space program.”

    Indeed. If memory serves, Armstrong often places the Apollo period in a historical context as a chapter of flight in the evolution of aviation. More ‘mystifying’- a term Armstrong used recently when dismissive chatter of further expolrations of Luna surface– is a strain of ‘newspace-types’ venting endless myopic rancor toward the Apollo era experience as well.

  • BeanCounterfromDownunder

    Armstrong demonstrated virtually total ignorance of the current commercial space vehicle efforts i.e. COTS CCDev, as well as either ignorance or lack of comprehension, knowledge concerning the STS in front of a Congressional committee. He virtually read a script. On that basis alone, no respect is due to him.
    He was once a man to admire and respect unfortunately he’s now totally discredited.

  • Heinrich Monroe

    Notoriety? I hope you were simply misusing that word as so many people do.

    Ah, leave it to an editor to make that correction. The word is often used to mean merely “famous”, but you’re right, it does have more sinister connotations. I stand corrected.

    But let me restate my point. Neil Armstrong largely avoided the public view after his Apollo 11 journey. You can call it humility, but humility comes in different flavors. I consider John Glenn to be among the more humble of American astronauts. Yet he built on his fame to make himself even more. Harrison Schmidt as well. Shall we just say that Neil Armstrong had enormous potential that he didn’t take advantage of? Maybe he did, in fact, waste some of his precious heartbeats he had spoken of in his “reluctance” to build on his heroism.

    The Rodgers Commission? Yes, Armstrong did that, but the most famous and memorable moments of that commission came from a theoretical physicist. I’m not sure I can come up with any notable quote from Neil Armstrong in that service.

    No, he wasn’t a “hermit” exactly. But he did largely hide from the American public. His recent observations on the Hill were remarkable largely in that we hadn’t really heard that much from him before. Myopic rancor about Apollo? I never heard that. But I did hear observations that “then was then, and now is now”. The words we heard from him up there may have been ones of historical perspective more than ones of aerospace smarts.

  • William Mellberg

    BeanCounterfromDownunder wrote:

    “He [Neil Armstrong] was once a man to admire and respect unfortunately he’s now totally discredited.”

    Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. But I suspect if one were to take a poll among aerospace professionals today (as AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY did a decade ago), Mr. Armstrong would still be in the top 10 of the ‘Top 100 Stars of Aerospace’ as decided by his peers.

    BeanCounterfromDownunder also wrote:

    “He [Neil Armstrong] virtually read a script. On that basis alone, no respect is due to him.”

    Mr. Armstrong was reading the statements he had submitted ahead of time to the House and Senate committees. Which is pretty much standard operating procedure for witnesses appearing before Congressional committees. He also took questions from the committee members, and those were answered off the cuff.

    It seems Mr. Armstrong’s evaluations and analyses don’t match your worldview. Again, we are all entitled to our individual opinions based upon our individual experiences. But Neil Armstrong will be admired and respected long after all of us are dead and buried — and deservedly so. He hasn’t discredited himself one bit. On the contrary, his long and distinguished career gives him a perspective that many less experienced and less knowledgeable individuals cannot even imagine.

    Wise is the man who listens to the voices of experience and learns from the lessons of the past.

  • William Mellberg

    DCSCA wrote:

    “… his [Harrison Schmitt’s] capacity to describe where he was — that is, give it “context” – w/t the aid of television, helped bring Taurus- Littrow ‘alive’ for us all as a defined place of interest, with recognizable features, beyond the mystery of an abstract point on a lunar map.”

    I certainly agree with that comment, and I appreciate your kind words.

    Dr. Schmitt’s discovery of orange soil at Shorty Crater certainly provided added interest to his geological field work during the Apollo 17 mission. As you will recall, he had stirred the soil with his feet — demonstrating the value of trained, human explorers on other worlds.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ-7212_idA

    You might also enjoy a presentation Dr. Schmitt gave a few years ago describing his trip to the Moon, and talking about the future of lunar exploration and exploitation …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmKJks0Dldw&feature=related

    Finally, you might enjoy this presentation by Neil Armstrong …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOFMwX38_Xs

    Mr. Armstrong gave a relatively brief description of the geologic history of the Moon (and the Earth-Moon system) through “a metaphorical tale” of a lunar rock named “Bock.” I thought it was a very clever approach to the subject; and I appreciated Mr. Armstrong’s wit, as well as his wisdom. Geologists and geology students love this presentation.

  • William Mellberg

    Heinrich Monroe wrote:

    “The Rodgers Commission? Yes, Armstrong did that, but the most famous and memorable moments of that commission came from a theoretical physicist. I’m not sure I can come up with any notable quote from Neil Armstrong in that service.”

    First, it’s Rogers, not Rodgers. William P. Rogers was an attorney, not an engineer. He had been President Eisenhower’s Attorney General and President Nixon’s Secretary of State. President Reagan called on him to chair the Challenger investigation. But, clearly, Vice Chair Neil Armstrong was selected to focus on the technical questions. Yes, physicist Richard Feynman had the most memorable quote. But his statement indirectly addresses your point:

    “For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.”

    It seems you are more interested in ‘public relations’ (Feynman’s memorable quote) than in the critical questions that Mr. Armstrong asked of the witnesses during the hearings:

    “Did you ever consider or take thought of controlling the temperature at the seals, or to changing the material of the seals to something that had different characteristics?”

    “Could I ask the source of the ice, what percentage was due to ambient conditions and what was condensation on the vehicle that froze?”

    Mr. Armstrong’s line of questioning was not the stuff of network sound bytes. But it did reflect the logical thinking of man who was thoroughly familiar with accident investigations.

    Neil Armstrong is first and foremost an engineer, not a media star.

    Like Jimmy Doolittle, Neil Armstrong is remembered for one thing. Doolittle will forever be associated with the Tokyo raid of 1942. Armstrong will always be known as the first human to set foot on the Moon. But Jimmy Doolittle made many other contributions to the advancement of aviation and space. And so has Neil Armstrong. Both made maximum use of their education, their skills and their experience in the service of their country and in the development of aerospace technology. I’d say that’s pretty commendable. Much more so, perhaps, than forever standing in the spotlight.

  • DCSCA

    @Heinrich Monroe wrote @ July 4th, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    “But let me restate my point. Neil Armstrong largely avoided the public view after his Apollo 11 journey.”

    You haven’t been looking. You’re simply inaccurate. Immediately after 11, Armstrong dutifully participated in all the public events associated w/his responsibilities through NASA- including dinners, award cerimonies and a grueling world tour through the autumn of 1969– and beyond, including a USO tour w/Bob Hope to Vietnam. When transitioning into the private sector, he carefully selected which projects he felt he could contribute and rationed his public appearences and contributions to chiefly aerospace area but when called upon by his government for input over the years, he has stepped up to the plate.

    @BeanCounterfromDownunder wrote @ July 4th, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    Nonsense.

  • DCSCA

    @William Mellberg wrote @ July 4th, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Re – ‘Schmidt” — meant Schmitt- apologies for the typo on his name.

  • Heinrich Monroe

    You haven’t been looking. You’re simply inaccurate. Immediately after 11, Armstrong dutifully participated in all the public events associated w/his responsibilities through NASA- including dinners, award cerimonies and a grueling world tour through the autumn of 1969– and beyond, including a USO tour w/Bob Hope to Vietnam.

    Why should I have to “look”? Certainly I’m not faulting Neil Armstrong for not being “dutiful”. That’s a weak accomplishment. I’m just saying that he had personally captivated a nation, if not the world, and had the potential to do something more than showing up at dinners, award ceremonies and USO tours. He largely avoided interaction with the public, although he certainly didn’t hesitate to show his face once in a while. That’s simply accurate.

    Neil Armstrong is first and foremost an engineer, not a media star.

    Who’s talking about media stars? You mean like Buzz? John Glenn isn’t a “media star”. Harrison Schmitt (yes, I make that spelling mistake on his name all the time too) wouldn’t see himself as a media star. Certainly Neil Armstrong is first and foremost an engineer, and quite clearly never aspired to be anything more. Again, I can’t fault him for that. But I will say that there was potential that he didn’t develop.

    There is an important difference between being a media star and standing in the spotlight. You can stand in the spotlight to do more than being a media star. You can do it to engage, inspire, and lead. Many people think that being a media star automatically makes you able to engage, inspire, and lead. Not so.

    To the extent that part of the mission of human spaceflight, we are told, is to engage, inspire, and lead, one wonders if personality selection criteria for astronauts should take that into account.

    Mr. Armstrong’s line of questioning was not the stuff of network sound bytes. But it did reflect the logical thinking of man who was thoroughly familiar with accident investigations.

    But his line of questioning in the Rogers commission did not reflect the thinking of a man who wants to engage, inspire, and lead. The Armstrong quotes you pulled out are largely mechanistic ones. Are those really the best you could find? You seem to imply that Feynman’s quote about public relations shows that’s what he’s concerned about. That’s patently false. Feynman was pointing out a fundamental truth about engineering, technology, and it’s relationship to public policy. Those words of his echo even today.

    Let’s be clear. Neil Armstrong is a onetime hero, has led a humble, admirable, commendable, and dutiful life, and is a good engineer and educator. Mae Jemison might not be a onetime hero, but she is certainly the latter, is engaging and inspirational, and continues to reach for new and visionary goals. We honor her for the latter, and that’s the honor that she rests on in making a political endorsement. More power to her.

  • William Mellberg wrote @ July 5th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    If I had 30 minutes with Armstrong where we only spoke the facts to each other…ie little or no spin and it was completely private…I would love to find out hiw real opinion of the Rogers commission.

    Another question in my mind is how a contemporary J. Doolittle would have performed no the panel…he did well on the airmail panel.

    The hardest thing I suspect for both Rogers and Armstrong to get over was the incompetence at NASA. The sealant in the cold water crystallized it for most everyone. RGO

  • I take the comments by Armstrong, Cernan and Lovell to basically be the spaceflight equivalent of the grumpy old man yelling at the kids to “Stay off of my lawn!”

    The grumpy old man may have accomplished a lot in his life. But he doesn’t like the kids playing on his lawn. The NewSpace crowd are the kids. Space is the lawn.

  • William Mellberg

    Heinrich Monroe wrote:

    “Certainly Neil Armstrong is first and foremost an engineer, and quite clearly never aspired to be anything more. Again, I can’t fault him for that. But I will say that there was potential that he didn’t develop.”

    Mr. Monroe, you need to remember that the one thing most people fear the most is public speaking. I’m a public speaker myself. But after many years (decades), I still get butterflies in my stomach as I stride to the podium. By his own admission, Mr. Armstrong is not a public speaker, although I think he does a fine job whenever he speaks. He measures his words carefully. He is articulate. And he has a good sense of humor. Mr. Armstrong has, in fact, spoken at many events over the years, as I pointed out earlier in this thread. Most of them have been related to the aerospace industry. Of course, he also spoke to ‘audiences’ every day as a university professor — inspiring a generation of young engineers in a most direct and positive way. The wisdom Professor Armstrong passed on to those students will carry on long after he has departed this world for good.

    One other point about public speaking …

    After Surveyor I successfully landed in June 1966 (46 years ago), my Father was interviewed by several television reporters, and he was asked to give some lectures about the mission. He had been responsible for the design and development of Surveyor’s “eyes” — the camera system that was the principle instrument aboard those spacecraft. Dad was an outstanding engineer. He later developed instruments that measured the atmospheres of Venus and Jupiter (aboard the Pioneer-Venus and Galileo descent probes). But he was never a public speaker. Poor Dad struggled through those interviews and lectures. He came across well enough. But his stomach was in knots the entire time whenever he had to speak.

    I have a friend who became president of a major U.S. airline. I served as a communications consultant to him, and the first assignment he gave to me was to talk on his behalf with the business editors of the local newspapers. I was supposed to discuss his background and experience. He was an excellent engineer and manager. But he was a dismal public speaker, and he dreaded having to talk with the media. Some people (most people) dread being in the spotlight.

    Heinrich Monroe also wrote:

    “But his line of questioning in the Rogers commission did not reflect the thinking of a man who wants to engage, inspire, and lead. The Armstrong quotes you pulled out are largely mechanistic ones. Are those really the best you could find?”

    Mr. Armstrong’s job on the Rogers commission was to uncover what had caused the Challenger accident. He succeeded.

    As for a quote from Neil Armstrong that can engage, inspire and lead … try this one on for size:

    “That’s one small step for (a) man … one giant leap for mankind.”

    And Heinrich Monroe opined:

    “Mae Jemison might not be a onetime hero, but she is certainly the latter, is engaging and inspirational, and continues to reach for new and visionary goals.”

    But you are wrong again. Dr. Jemison IS a hero. She is certainly a hero to the kids in some of Chicago’s neighborhood schools who have been inspired by her visits and presentations. That said, you should remember that Mae Jemison is no stranger to the stage. Among her many talents, she is a performer, too. And that gift certainly helps Dr. Jemison in her efforts to inspire the next generation of explorers. I think she’s TERRIFIC!

    As for her political endorsements …

    This is a free country. And NASA’s astronaut corps has always reflected the diversity of thought that make this a great country. In his excellent book, The All-American Boys, Apollo 7 astronaut Walt Cunningham mentions how he and Rusty Schweickart shared an office and a friendship. But they were polar opposites politically. Cunningham and Elliott See both openly endorsed Barry Goldwater in 1964. Of course, John Glenn would have supported his friend, John Kennedy, had it not been for the terrible tragedy of November 22, 1963. (That day will be forever etched in my memory, especially after visiting the museum in Dallas a few years ago.) So Dr. Jemison’s endorsement of President Obama is neither surprising nor anything new.

  • Heinrich Monroe

    Please don’t be an apologist for trepidation about public speaking. That’s really not what we’re talking about here. Neil Armstrong couldn’t engage with the public, though it seems he did OK in a classroom environment. I don’t consider him a failure in that regard, but I do think it was an incredible leadership and inspirational opportunity that he didn’t take, or couldn’t take.

    Mr. Armstrong’s job on the Rogers commission was to uncover what had caused the Challenger accident. He succeeded.

    I wouldn’t say that. The commission succeeded, and Armstrong may well have helped it do so. I’d also like to say that the purpose of a very public commission was to reach out to the stunned and saddened public with some perceptions about risk management. So the job was more than asking about the percentage of the ice that was due to ambient conditions. They were chosen to represent the engineering and technical community to the American citizenry, who lost these fine people.

    Ah, the first-step-on-the-Moon quote. The one he flubbed. Well, I never held that against him. But as awestruck as I was by the lunar landings, that particular quote was really not that inspirational to me. He could have recited Haiku or told a joke, and people’s jaws still would have still been on the floor.

    I never said that Mae Jemison wasn’t a hero. I said she wasn’t a one-time hero. That’s precisely the point. Neil Armstrong was satisfied to be a one-time hero. Mae Jemison was not.

  • DCSCA

    @Stephen C. Smith wrote @ July 5th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    “The NewSpace crowd are the kids.”

    Kids, indeed. Who as with all children, are prone to get into trouble at times and “don’t know what they don’t know yet.”

  • BeanCounterfromDownunder

    DCSCA wrote @ July 5th, 2012 at 6:24 pm
    ‘Kids, indeed. Who as with all children, are prone to get into trouble at times and “don’t know what they don’t know yet.” ‘

    Yeh you keep saying this and so far there’s no evidence of it.

  • William Mellberg

    Heinrich Monroe wrote:

    “Neil Armstrong was satisfied to be a one-time hero.”

    I wouldn’t say that. I was quite excited as a boy by the remarkable flights Armstrong and his cohorts made in the X-15 series. And Mr. Armstrong was certainly a hero when he remained calm, cool and collected during the Gemini 8 emergency. Indeed, Dave Scott still publicly thanks Neil Armstrong for saving his life during that perilous mission. Then there was Armstrong’s brush with death in the Lunar Landing Training Vehicle. Armstrong was (and is) a consummate professional. And that describes his role on the Rogers commission. Mr. Armstrong was there to find out what happened — not to produce sound bytes. I can’t think of a single NTSB accident investigation that produced sound bytes. Engineers, like surgeons, do their work quietly and professionally.

    As for Neil Armstrong’s famous quote when stepping onto the lunar surface …

    It will be remembered long after anything you or I have ever said or written has gone to the trash bin of history. Moreover, I think it was a wonderful bit of prose. Armstrong made the point that he was just one man taking one small step. But that step truly represented a giant leap for mankind. For the first time in human history, our species was setting foot on another world. Armstrong captured the significance of that step — and that moment — with one of the most oft-quoted statements in history.

    As Dave English wrote in the current (August 2012) issue of SKY & TELESCOPE, “A record-breaking audience of some 600 million people listened as Armstrong spoke slowly and with solemnity the most famous words ever uttered in space.”

    BTW, English notes that an Australian computer expert has found the missing article (the ‘a’) in Armstrong’s statement. Whether or not Neil said “man” rather than “a man” is not important. What is important is that everyone understood what he meant.

  • William Mellberg

    DCSCA wrote:

    “Re – ‘Schmidt’ — meant Schmitt- apologies for the typo on his name.”

    No problem. It happens all the time.

  • DCSCA wrote @ July 5th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    “don’t know what they don’t know yet.”

    you and Rummy both misuse the heck out of that and Uncle Helmuth’s other various “know/dont know”. goobers RGO

  • David Teek

    Well, I’m a bit surprised we are going to expend this much energy contesting the relative lifetime merits of and “woulda, coulda shoulda’s” on the accomplishments of Neil Armstrong and Harrison Schmitt. Thank goodness they were never elected President, then they really would be catching hell here.

  • common sense

    @ David Teek wrote @ July 6th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    The proponents of so-called NewSpace are not those who seek to improperly use the several Apollo crews fame for their own agenda. It is pretty sad they are being pulled into this. If people actually had respect for anyone of them, they would leave them alone and let them do on their own what they think they ought to do. not use them for political purposes. And one day, someday, Neil, Eugene and the others will visit NewSpace and they will get it. They will understand. Kraft showed he is starting to get it already. He too landed on the Moon in his own way and if he can get it, the other crews will as well. Just watch.

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